What do you get out of boxing that you don't out of kickboxing or muay thai?

Discussion in 'Boxing/Kickboxing' started by skribs, Sep 25, 2018.

  1. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I do taekwon-do (ITF).

    I understand you do taekwondo (KKW).

    I don't know what tae kwon do consists of...

    Essentially, the organisation is what defines it.

    The organisation is what steers development, defines the focus, sets the sparring rules and format and provides the core curriculum.

    That is what shapes the art.

    A little example - if you were to come sparring with us, you would probably get punched in the face a fair few times (in a nice way ;)).

    The look of the art is very different too - compare stances and movement in some pattern videos on YouTube (if you don't know what to look for with ITF, I can link you if you pm me).
     
  2. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    If you call it "Taekwondo" and "Taekwond-Do" you're probably going to be the only person who knows what you're talking about. It's a lot simpler to say you take "ITF TKD". Because that immediately establishes the difference.

    Plus, in most of my posts, I do mention either KKW or WTF, so it's pretty obvious what organization I'm talking about.
     
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  3. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    In most of your posts (that I've read) you tend to refer to tkd or taekwondo, with kkw/wtf as a little side note here or there, very very rarely as part of the name.

    Inserting the hyphen would be a very silly way to rely on identification...
     
  4. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    I agree, but that seems to be what you're doing. Because you keep asking for us to differentiate "Taekwondo" from "Taekwon-do" to distance yourself from me. What you really want is to differentiate from "KKW Taekwondo" and "ITF Taekwon-do", which is going to be a lot easier.
     
  5. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    That's fine, I can support that ;)

    It's not to distance myself from you btw, that would imply disrespect and I really don't know you enough to disrespect you.
     
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  6. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Look up pensioner martial artist who wreck criminals and you will almost always find a boxer.

    Apart from the head trauma it is probably the easiest on the body.

    You can box out of a wheelchair if you want.
     
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  7. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    To expand on this a little...

    Once people have got used to the company kept on this site (some do this quicker than others) the instances of "I do karate" for example drastically reduce.

    The differences between the sub styles of "karate" are recognised (whether or not fully understood). It doesn't make one better than another, just helps in discussion.

    I'd like the same for what comes under the TKD name umbrella...

    I'm probably asking too much, but one day it'd be hugely entertaining for me to not get the "oh but you guys don't use punches in sparring" response ;)
     
  8. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    "We do punch in ITF sparring" is the response you can use. And technically we punch in WT sparring. Just not to the head, and it usually doesn't score points. But it's a good counter to a kick in close.
     
  9. MetalBoar

    MetalBoar Yellow Belt

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    I've heard this before and I could probably find an answer very quickly with Google, but if you don't mind, could you explain how the "usually doesn't" part works?
     
  10. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    It depends partly on what scoring system you're using.

    Legacy System
    If you're using a legacy system where the judges have to notice the hits, then any time they see the foot contact the pad they're supposed to score it. A basic roundhouse or snap side kick (not a pushing side kick) is 1 or 2 points, a back kick or tornado kick is 2 or 3 points, a headshot is 3 points, and a turning headshot is 4 points. (Sometime's it's 1 and 2 for roundhouse kick and back kick, sometimes 1 and 3, sometimes 2 and 3, depending on the rules at the time).

    So any kick that will hit the target is scored. But a punch has to have an actual effect. The punch has to knock the person back, knock them down, or visibly disrupt them enough to warrant a point. So while, in general, I can play tag with my feet and score tons of points, if I want to use a punch, I have to make it count, or it doesn't count.

    Daedo System
    Using the electronic scoring system, there are sensors in the chestguard and headguard that record hits from more sensors on your instep and heel. (This is why ball-of-the-foot kicks aren't trained in KKW TKD). There are no sensors in your hands. I'm not sure if you can even score on a punch with Daedo, but if you do it is a judge's call, and not a sensor hit. So if you're making contact with your feet, it's up to the impartial sensor. If you make contact with your hands, it can be up to the judge, and again - it has to be a staggering blow.

    ---

    Now, this isn't to say that punches aren't useful. A good punch to the solar plexus can knock the wind out of a fighter. Punches are good distancing techniques to knock them out of ax kick range or to set up your own kicks. Punches are really useful against smaller fighters up close when you can't use your feet.

    But when you can score 2-3 points per kick and kicks score more often than punches, they don't really get used. There's also that a staggering blow takes the opponent out of range of a follow-up punch, so you can't really combo points into punches. You can do roundhouse kick- double punch - roundhouse kick and get a few points from the kicks, but you can't string several punches together and get points on all of them.
     
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  11. MetalBoar

    MetalBoar Yellow Belt

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    Cool, thanks! I wasn't aware that TKD was doing electronic scoring, interesting stuff. I know from fencing that there can be pros and cons to that, but I'm guessing it allows for some really fast action.
     
  12. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    Technically the legacy system is electronic. You would have 3 judges, with a gameboy-looking thing that has buttons for 1, 2, and 3 points for Red and 1, 2, and 3 points for blue. You need 2 judges to hit the point simultaneously in order for a point to be scored.

    That has its own problems, because what a "hit" is is subjective (some judges it's any contact at all, some judges it's a hit that rocks the other person), and because if the judges are off-time from each other or overcompensate they can skew scores wildly. First tournament I did at the school I'm at had 9 rings going at once. Ring 1 usually had a score of like 0-2 or 1-3 or 3-4. Ring 3 usually had a score of 34-27, 25-21, or 38-33. The matches were similar, but that's how the scores went.

    Of course then you have the full electronic scoring where they put the head gear sensor into the chestguard and so the chest gets tapped and you get 3 points.
     
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  13. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    You'd think something like a pen could sort that out proper quick - like scrawl "head" and "chest" on the sensors :D

    Or maybe hit them to see what they register just before fitting them.
     
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  14. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    Both of those were being done. Actually they were labeled head and chest.

    And somehow it still got screwed up.

    I think once they put the blue sensors in the red chest and so when blue kicked they scored against themselves.

    Some of these we could get corrected, but some of them (like a sensor not being properly calibrated and not accepting any hits) you just didn't get the points for.
     
  15. FriedRice

    FriedRice Master Black Belt

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    Boxing + TKD is a very effective combo. Pressure fighting in Boxing range and spamming low leg kicks, works very well vs. styles that like to setup kicks with proper range, like TKD and Muay Thai too.
     
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  16. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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    I never understood the electronic scoring system. But, then, not understanding something seems to be one of my fortes.

    To me...

    Ask.jpg
     
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  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    My thought on this, for what it's worth, is that I'll be able to punch much longer than I'll be able to kick. That's probably more of a concern for me - given my leg/foot issues - than most folks. With that in mind, I've focused much more on punching than kicking the last couple of years, so if I was making that choice, I'd probably opt for boxing.
     
  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I think it was more for the referee than for the competitors.
     
  19. skribs

    skribs Master of Arts

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    After all the "informative" responses I got on this post I may want to re-write it in the TKD forums!
     
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  20. dvcochran

    dvcochran 3rd Black Belt

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    I think it would be a hard marriage for the reasons others have listed about being a small, specific set of techniques but if you could really make it work with your TKD, that would be tough to handle.
     

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