What are the most effective styles of Karate?

[JR 137]

That’s intense. Nobody is going to accuse the folks in those competitions of being soft.

In all fairness, those guys and women are the top fighters in the top Enshin competition, so they’re not exactly the average karateka from Enshin.

I’ve got a bit of a man crush on Enshin though. They seem to have long and close range covered quite well, and what they’re doing seems to be realistic and not leaving much to the imagination. They cover ground fighting too, but it’s not to the BJJ extent and it’s not within the competition rules. It’s basically get the opponent off their feet and stay on yours by either striking, sweeping, or throwing. I’d imagine the ground fighting approach is initiate a choke or joint lock as quickly as possible and get back out rather than an all-out Jiu-Jitsu match.

 

[Steve]

Agreed. That's why I added the condition of not having a huge skill discrepancy. If you put me in the C230 and an elite rally driver in the Rabbit, I'm not sure the car is the deciding factor (as long as the Rabbit doesn't break down, and mine never did). But if you put two experienced rally drivers in there, the car will be the deciding factor.

Is it a drag race? I think you win.

 

[BmillerWarrior]

Unfortunately in the Dallas area we surprisingly don't have Kyokushin or Enshin Karate available

 

[Gerry Seymour]

In all fairness, those guys and women are the top fighters in the top Enshin competition, so they’re not exactly the average karateka from Enshin.

I’ve got a bit of a man crush on Enshin though. They seem to have long and close range covered quite well, and what they’re doing seems to be realistic and not leaving much to the imagination. They cover ground fighting too, but it’s not to the BJJ extent and it’s not within the competition rules. It’s basically get the opponent off their feet and stay on yours by either striking, sweeping, or throwing. I’d imagine the ground fighting approach is initiate a choke or joint lock as quickly as possible and get back out rather than an all-out Jiu-Jitsu match.

They use kicks more effectively up close than most, too. Makes me jealous. I’ve always wanted to be a kicker (soccer background), but have never been flexible enough to use the skill at a high level.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Is it a drag race? I think you win.

In that case, I have a good shot. Add two turns, and I might already be in trouble. The more turns, and the sharper, the more certainly the driver matters.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Unfortunately in the Dallas area we surprisingly don't have Kyokushin or Enshin Karate available

That’s part of the reason you got the responses you got early on. Your best bet is to visit what is nearby, and see which school is hardest.

 

[JR 137]

They use kicks more effectively up close than most, too. Makes me jealous. I’ve always wanted to be a kicker (soccer background), but have never been flexible enough to use the skill at a high level.

I’m pretty sure Joko Ninomiya (Enshin founder) took that from his days in Kyokushin. Kyokushin kicking has more in common with Muay Thai than most other karate schools IMO. I think the kicking methodology changed when Oyama sent 3 of his top guys to face the MT guys in Thailand back in the 60s.

 

[Danny T]

Unfortunately in the Dallas area we surprisingly don't have Kyokushin or Enshin Karate available

Genjikai Karate says they have Kyokushin and that the instructor Makio Nishida studied directly under Masutatsu Oyama. (founder of Kyokushinkai)

Genjikai Karate
5801 Curzon Ave
Ste 2M
Fort Worth, TX 76107

 

[JR 137]

That’s part of the reason you got the responses you got early on. Your best bet is to visit what is nearby, and see which school is hardest.

This right here.

There’s going to be variation from school to school, even within an individual organization. Case in point... I study Seido Juku. There’s some schools like mine that are small, the adults and kids are completely separated, and most of us trained bare knuckle in the past. We hit hard, but the knockdown brawling training is behind us now that we’re older. Then there’s some dojos are overwhelmingly children and focus more so on tournament style karate. Then there’s a lot in between. They syllabus is identical within the entire organization, yet there’s variation on the emphasis. Where I train is no better nor worse than the other schools, for the most part; where I train is best for me though. There’s some dojos I wouldn’t train at and others I’d be quite happy at. And that’s one organization.

Visit whatever’s nearby. In a place as big as Dallas, I’m sure the right school will have minimal compromises.

As an aside, Ashihara Karate is similar to Enshin. Possibly less emphasis on throwing, but quite similar. Ninomiya was Ashihara’s top student before he left to form Enshin. Maybe there’s an Ashihara school nearby?

Also, Enshin and Ashihara aren’t very visible on the web. Email them and ask if there’s anyone nearby. You never know.

Enshin’s honbu dojo
Home - Enshin Karate

 

[Charlemagne]

There are styles of Karate that have gone out of their way to practice with hard contact and which spar regularly, and there are those which have not. Typically, the style of Kyokushin and its offshoots are the ones which do this. While there are other styles where individual schools do train with resistance, that is far more rare. Some are directing you that way, and that is good.

Having said that, I honestly believe that, if you were to find a traditional Okinawan Karate school that does train with full speed and resistance, that would serve you well from a fighting perspective regardless of what system it is (Goju, Wado, Shorin, Shotokan, etc.). The hard part is finding that.

If "hard contact" is what you are looking for, and from your posts it sounds as if it is, I would suggest seeing if there are any schools from Kyokushin or any of the offshoots of that style in your area (Enshin, Ashihara, etc.). If not, then take a look at individual schools from other styles and ask about sparring, contact, etc. There are even branches within Kyokushin, and some, such as Kuokushin-Kan have worked to get head punches, etc. back into the curriculum and in their training, which from a self-defense thing is obviously smart.
Kyokushin-Kan USA list of their new dojos! - Time to be United!
North America | Branches | IKO Kyokushinkaikan

If you find someone who teaches Shotokan that happens to seek out training with the Machidas, that might be a good fit as well.

In addition, some of the advice you have been given is good. Check out schools. Are you comfortable there? What is their focus? Is the distance of travel reasonable for you to get there a few days a week? Is their pricing reasonable for you? Does their schedule fit well into your schedule? Can the instructor teach?

So, of those things that other people are mentioning ARE important, so I don't discount them. But, the other things you mentioned are valid concerns as well, so don't let people talk you out of what you are interested in.
- If their schedule, location, atmosphere, pricing, etc. is perfect but the system or training method is not what you are looking for, you aren't going to be happy there.
- If the style and training method is perfect for what you are after, but you can't afford it, or can't get there often, or if they are a bunch of jerks, then you aren't going to stick around anyway.



Where are you located? That might make it easier for people to help you.

 

[Charlemagne]

Genjikai Karate says they have Kyokushin and that the instructor Makio Nishida studied directly under Masutatsu Oyama. (founder of Kyokushinkai)

Genjikai Karate
5801 Curzon Ave
Ste 2M
Fort Worth, TX 76107

Makio Nishida

Indeed, he also lists many other instructors. Notably, he does not list any teaching certifications or rank from any of those people, so that is something that the OP would certainly want to check out. He could be totally legit, and I certainly hope that is the case. However, I find it surprising that he does not list those things, though he has two pages of bio about himself.

 

[Danny T]

Makio Nishida

Indeed, he also lists many other instructors. Notably, he does not list any teaching certifications or rank from any of those people, so that is something that the OP would certainly want to check out. He could be totally legit, and I certainly hope that is the case. However, I find it surprising that he does not list those things, though he has two pages of bio about himself.

Needs to inquire.
I don't list any certifications or rank in the systems I teach on my site either.

 

[Charlemagne]

Needs to inquire.
I don't list any certifications or rank in the systems I teach on my site either.

Do you list your Reiki status, etc. and have two full pages of bio? LOL

Like I said, I hope he is legit, but I would certainly want to ask.

 

[Danny T]

Do you list your Reiki status, etc. and have two full pages of bio? LOL

Like I said, I hope he is legit, but I would certainly want to ask.

Hmm, are you on my website? Unless my webmaster has recently done something I don't know about you are looking at a site that isn't mine.

 

[Charlemagne]

Hmm, are you on my website? Unless my webmaster has recently done something I don't know about you are looking at a site that isn't mine.

I'm talking about him. Someone who lists their Reiki certification, etc. is probably the kind of guy who would list his MA certs as well. That's what I am getting at.

 

[Martial D]

Yeah, put the best driver in a ‘77 VW Rabbit, and the second best in a MB C230. Unless there is a huge discrepancy in skill, the best driver will lose badly.

And the one that goes really fast in straight lines and around turns.

Errr... provided the cars are suitable for the type of race, maybe.

LOL. Don't pretend you didn't get my point you sly devils. You do have a point though. To continue the metaphor, some 'cars' will never win a race against a much better car, no matter how good the driver. From what I've seen though, the Karatemobiles are all pretty comparable.

 

[Steve]

The Mini Cooper won a lot of rallies in the 60s with something like 70hp against cars with 3 to 4 Times the power.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

The Mini Cooper won a lot of rallies in the 60s with something like 70hp against cars with 3 to 4 Times the power.

Something about those cars and rallies. The power math doesn't make sense, but the did really well. Somehow (weight? suspension? hard to roll? easy to pick up and port on your back over bad stretches?) they were the right tool.

 

[Steve]

Something about those cars and rallies. The power math doesn't make sense, but the did really well. Somehow (weight? suspension? hard to roll? easy to pick up and port on your back over bad stretches?) they were the right tool.

The secret was that. They never had to slow down. Low center of gravity and wheels at the extreme corners of the frame.

 

[JR 137]

Depending on who’s teaching it and how old-school they are, Uechi Ryu is a very hard style. I’ve heard it’s the toughest physical conditioning (body hardening, not cardio conditioning) karate style there is. From what I’ve seen first hand at a particular dojo, and what I’ve seen in videos, it seems pretty accurate.