What are some differences between Karate and Taekwondo?

[Earl Weiss]

I would not keep it shrouded in mystery If I were taught by Funakoshi Gishin. Especially if I promote an alternative martial art and seek to establish credibility. But hey, that's just me. Kinda like not wanting it be known that Erwin Schrodinger was your professor in Physics. Let's not get that information out.

Do you see the illogic in all of this?

Yes, the illogic is your frame of reference from the current state of things, and applying them to someone from an occupied country, being schooled in the occupying country, conscripted into the occupiers army, later fighting the occupiers and returning to his war torn homeland and asking about records of being with the occupier.

 

[Earl Weiss]

I would be interested as a marthial arts enthusiast to hear what conclusions he drew from his experience in Shotokan and how that influenced his Chang Hon-TKD.

Get a hold of his 1965 Book where he has 20 of the earlier Karate patterns. He addresses both the Shorin and Shorei systems. You can see where he may have gotten stuff wrong in the reference material. When he taught he would sometimes indicate that "Karate" (did not specify which system) does things this way and he does things a different way with the reason for the change. Aside from the more mobile Walking stance better suited to lead leg kicks he stopped his low outer forearm block with the thumb knuckle alignned with the centerline as opposed to being over the front knee. His reason was to have the block continue to protect the same side lower abdomen.

if you find his encyclopedia on line he has numerous examples in Volumes 3 & 4 as to why he has things done a certain way and not another way. You could judge for yourself where the specs differed from or was similar to any Karate specs.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Good! Now why are there still some some within the ITF who question that he in fact trained under Funakoshin? I've seen it written on Martialtalk.

It's healthy to question. Not the same as denying without foundation.

 

[Prototype]

Yes, the illogic is your frame of reference from the current state of things, and applying them to someone from an occupied country, being schooled in the occupying country, conscripted into the occupiers army, later fighting the occupiers and returning to his war torn homeland and asking about records of being with the occupier.

I don't think you can blame Funakoshi for that.

 

[Dirty Dog]

I don't think you can blame Funakoshi for that.

I don't think anybody did. It is, however, not unreasonable to believe that these events might make it somewhat difficult to produce the sort of 21st Century document trail that would be needed to satisfy your questions.

 

[Prototype]

I don't think anybody did. It is, however, not unreasonable to believe that these events might make it somewhat difficult to produce the sort of 21st Century document trail that would be needed to satisfy your questions.

The implications are that there underlies a deep resentment towards Japanese people in general, and that it could explain why Choi does not pay respect to his instructors in Shotokan. If he does name Funakoshi, or whoever it was that taught him, then I stand corrected.

 

[Prototype]

I would like to see Funakoshi Gishin award a second degree black belt after a mere 3 years of training. None of it makes any sense.

 

[Dirty Dog]

The implications are that there underlies a deep resentment towards Japanese people in general, and that it could explain why Choi does not pay respect to his instructors in Shotokan. If he does name Funakoshi, or whoever it was that taught him, then I stand corrected.

Of course there is. There is a huge underlying resentment of the Japanese by Koreans in general. After all, the Japanese only occupied Korea for about 40 years, during which time the native culture was brutally suppressed. Why would that possibly cause resentment?

 

[Prototype]

Of course there is. There is a huge underlying resentment of the Japanese by Koreans in general. After all, the Japanese only occupied Korea for about 40 years, during which time the native culture was brutally suppressed. Why would that possibly cause resentment?

Doesn't mean that you can't express appreciation to your Karate instructor. I see no mention of him in his recount. That's not in the spirit of Karate and Taekwon-Do.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Doesn't mean that you can't express appreciation to your Karate instructor. I see no mention of him in his recount. That's not in the spirit of Karate and Taekwon-Do.

So you think it makes sense that a Korean with a military and political career to worry about, living in the immediate post-liberation period, when anti-Japanese feeling was at it's greatest, should have talked about how awesome things were learning under the Japanese oppressors?
Given the prevailing attitude at the time, doing so would have been less than wise.
And later, it frankly no longer mattered. He'd earned his position through his early work with the KTA and (later) the ITF.

 

[Tez3]

Doesn't mean that you can't express appreciation to your Karate instructor. I see no mention of him in his recount. That's not in the spirit of Karate and Taekwon-Do.

Good grief. Do you know what went on in Korea during the Japanese occupation? Do you know why there still is bad feeling in Korea for Japanese? Korea isn't alone actually, there are still many ex prisoners of war of the Japanese ( men, women and children) in the UK who cannot forgive the Japanese for what they put them through especially as the later still haven't apologised. The 'spirit of karate and Taekwondo' doesn't count when your family is massacred or tortured, your women turned into sex slaves for the military and you fellow prisoners starved and beaten, subject to horrendous treatment. I think you need to do some research and have some empathy for the Koreans and others. Would you have said that those in the Nazi concentration camps ought to have been grateful to the Germans who had perhaps taught them at school or served them in shops?

 

[TrueJim]

Doesn't mean that you can't express appreciation to your Karate instructor. I see no mention of him in his recount. That's not in the spirit of Karate and Taekwon-Do.

Yah, I hate to pile-on, but I think you're missing some important historical context. Not that it's necessarily your fault, some schools here in the U.S. seem to do a poor job generally of teaching world history outside a Euro-centric context. But just as one example, see: Comfort women - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Using just that one example, I think if the Japanese forcefully took your 13 year old sister from your home, piled her in a boxcar with a bunch of other teenage girls, hauled her to the nearest Japanese military base, and turned her into a sex slave for the Japanese army...after the war was over you wouldn't be like, "Well, I'd at least like to thank the Japanese for all the good things they did for me." You'd probably rather cut off your own arm that find something nice to say about the Japanese.

If you're not in the mood to read, there's a highly fictionalized account of a story (based loosely on real-life events) that despite being fictional I think does a nice job of depicting what life must have been like for soldiers forced to fight for the Japanese army. It's available on Amazon streaming with your choice of English subtitles or English dubbing. It's really worth watching: Amazon.com: My Way: Jang Dong-Gun, Fan Bingbing, Joe Odagiri, Je-kyu Kang: Movies & TV

 

[Prototype]

Yah, I hate to pile-on, but I think you're missing some important historical context. Not that it's necessarily your fault, some schools here in the U.S. seem to do a poor job generally of teaching world history outside a Euro-centric context. But just as one example, see: Comfort women - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Using just that one example, I think if the Japanese forcefully took your 13 year old sister from your home, piled her in a boxcar with a bunch of other teenage girls, hauled her to the nearest Japanese military base, and turned her into a sex slave for the Japanese army...after the war was over you wouldn't be like, "Well, I'd at least like to thank the Japanese for all the good things they did for me." You'd probably rather cut off your own arm that find something nice to say about the Japanese.

If you're not in the mood to read, there's a highly fictionalized account of a story (based loosely on real-life events) that despite being fictional I think does a nice job of depicting what life must have been like for soldiers forced to fight for the Japanese army. It's available on Amazon streaming with your choice of English subtitles or English dubbing. It's really worth watching: Amazon.com: My Way: Jang Dong-Gun, Fan Bingbing, Joe Odagiri, Je-kyu Kang: Movies & TV

I wouldn't advocate rejecting Japanese people due to the wrongdoings of some. That would be racism or bigotry. I ask again, what does Funakoshi got do with this besides being Japanese? By that reasoning, African Americans should reject caucasians.

 

[Earl Weiss]

The implications are that there underlies a deep resentment towards Japanese people in general, and that it could explain why Choi does not pay respect to his instructors in Shotokan. If he does name Funakoshi, or whoever it was that taught him, then I stand corrected.

OK, since General Choi does reference his training in Japan - consider yourself corrected. I do not imply a general resentment toward Japanese people. However, it is no secret that there is a historic (and understandable) resentment of the Japanese by the Korean people.

 

[TrueJim]

I wouldn't advocate rejecting Japanese people due to the wrongdoings of some. That would be racism or bigotry. I ask again, what does Funakoshi got do with this besides being Japanese? By that reasoning, African Americans should reject caucasians.

Your analogy is a poor one. Here's a much better analogy: "in the years immediately following the U.S. Civil War, African Americans in the South should reject caucasians."

That would be a more accurate analogy to the situation in post-War Korea. For Koreans after World War II, the oppression they suffered wasn't something that had happened a "hundred years ago;" it was something that had just happened. I.e., the oppression personally affected you, your immediate family members, your neighbors, the friends you grew up with, and everybody you've ever known.

 

[Prototype]

OK, since General Choi does reference his training in Japan - consider yourself corrected. I do not imply a general resentment toward Japanese people. However, it is no secret that there is a historic (and understandable) resentment of the Japanese by the Korean people.

Well, Choi does mention Funakoshi as the supervisor in one of the interviews available online. That's not however the same as being ones instructor. Maybe people shouldn't rush to such conclusions.

 

[Prototype]

Your analogy is a poor one. Here's a much better analogy: "in the years immediately following the U.S. Civil War, African Americans in the South should reject caucasians."

Doesn't matter one bit. It's not an understandable viewpoint unless you can show a uniform hatred by one nationality/group towards the other. And that uniformity would have to include General Chois Karate instructor.

 

[Tez3]

Doesn't matter one bit. It's not an understandable viewpoint unless you can show a uniform hatred by one nationality/group towards the other. And that uniformity would have to include General Chois Karate instructor.

Your comments are naïve and extremely insensitive.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Well, Choi does mention Funakoshi as the supervisor in one of the interviews available online. That's not however the same as being ones instructor. Maybe people shouldn't rush to such conclusions.

FWIW I must have missed the post in this thread where anyone jumped to such a conclusion. Perhaps you can point it out?

 

[TrueJim]

Doesn't matter one bit. It's not an understandable viewpoint unless you can show a uniform hatred by one nationality/group towards the other.

I suppose it may not be right to hate an entire people, but it's definitely understandable. I think if another country attacks your country, it's understandable to hate everybody who lives in the attacking country. Like I'm sure the French probably weren't too enamored of Germans in the years right after World War II.