Weapon based sparring

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by Finlay, Oct 22, 2017.

  1. Anarax

    Anarax Brown Belt

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    WOW, this is the first time I watched their 2017 video and I really liked what I saw. They have really cleaned a lot of it up and a lot the participants look like they actually train in weaponry. The only thing I thought was excessive were the repeated blows to the back of the head and neck with the weapons and the 3 sections staff was a little hard to watch. Other than that they've really improved on just about everything
     
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  2. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    I think we are starting to go around in circles at this point, you find the risks not worth it, I am quite fine with the risks. Can we agree to disagree?

    This is going to sound bad but I have had a hard time finding guys of my level that are willing to play hard. (I should note that I am not some sort of combat god, I am 5'6", 45, and not in the best shape of my life.) Before I started doing DBs I actually tried calling most of the FMA schools in a three state area and basically said in the nicest possible way "hey, I am sick of fighting my guys, do you guys do any light armor sparring? The silence was defeaning, seriously a whole bunch of "not interested" or "we don't do that." I really tried to make sure that it didn't come across as a challenge but guys didn't seem to want to play. After doing DBs and through that making the right contacts and figured out which schools were actually producing fighters we were able to start our own not-a-Dog-Brothers-Gathering to introduce people to low armor stick fighting. Plugging Warrior Tipon-Tipon: Warrior Tipon Tipon

    This is not DB level, the only injuries in three years have been 5 stitches, one flash KO and a bunch of scrapes and stick hickies. It is a big benefit to my students but it doesn't do much for me. And still finding fighters is hard, we send out many invites every year, the participation fee is $10, and it is in a major metropolitan area, and most schools just never seem to find the time or have available fighters.

    I will be the first to say that there is a lot of marketing push how extreme the DBs are. "If it bleeds, it leads" seems to be a popular sentiment in most of the highlight vids, so I understand why you have the impression that you do.
     
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  3. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    The level hasn't changed, what the editor chose to focus on was different.
     
  4. Anarax

    Anarax Brown Belt

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    Was this recently?
     
  5. Anarax

    Anarax Brown Belt

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    Wait I'm a little confused, you mean you had your own non dog brothers gathering? And you have also attended DB gatherings as well?
     
  6. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    6 or 7 years ago or so, before I started going to Gatherings.
     
  7. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    Myself and another guy started promoting a stickfighting event that is not affiliated with the Dog Brothers, which we call the Warrior Tipon-Tipon. I have attended 5 DB Gatherings.
     
  8. Anarax

    Anarax Brown Belt

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    I ask because FMA has really spread a lot in the past 5 years. You might want to try searching for new schools that have popped up in the past few years.
     
  9. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    Totally agree, which is why I send out something like 40+ emails/social media contacts/phone calls every year to every FMA group I can find within a reasonable distance of Seattle to come play at the Tipon-Tipon. Still trying to grow it.

    Finding sparring partners is hard, there was a full Dog Brother in Portland who looked for five years to find sparring partners beyond his immediate instructor and only had two guys ever respond. Those two guys were my students. :D Admittedly he was the opposite of me, young, ripped, and scary. :D
     
  10. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    I get the impression that the Dog Brothers make a point of showing what sort of injuries are possible so as to discourage unprepared people from imitating that sort of practice. (Don't try this at home, kids!) Highlight videos from a given gathering will show only some of the matches but all of the significant injuries, making it look like the odds of injury are higher than they are.

    (Lamont, please correct me if I am wrong about this.)
     
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  11. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    I am not sure the motives are as noble as discouraging people from doing it as much as a "look how badass we are" marketing end of things. But the latter part of your post is right on, you can just about count on every bleeder making it onto a highlight reel. I think they are moving away from that in the last couple of years, the 2017 Tribal highlight definately has a different feel to it.
     
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  12. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    Wish you were located closer. I'd love to come and play.
     
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  13. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    I wish you were closer, you could help develop our "grappling with weapons" curriculum.
     
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  14. Anarax

    Anarax Brown Belt

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    I agree some might misinterpret the injury ratio. However; when I watch the videos I make note about how many people are there and the amount/severity of injuries. Even with that taken into consideration it's still something to be concerned about. I can't say with 100% certainty what the Dog Brothers intentions are for putting the injuries in the videos, but they seem like good genuine guys. Editing out the injuries, at least the severe ones may seem dishonest to them. There's no reason why putting the injuries into the videos can't be both, discouraging the ones who shouldn't do it and entice those that have a taste for it
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I find this inexplicably funny, Blindside. I'm blaming it on the whiskey and the fact that I hear it in a Southern drawl in my head.
     
  16. Blindside

    Blindside Senior Master

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    I am now trying to figure out how a drunk southerner would say it.
     
  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    At least 5 syllables.
     
  18. Tony Dismukes

    Tony Dismukes Senior Master

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    I just watched the DB Euro Gathering 2016 highlights and I found it amusing that with all the matches involving full contact sticks to the head, punches, kicks, knees, elbows, and throws on a hard floor the one time Marc Denny told someone to be more careful was when the fighter was applying a heel hook.

    It's true, heel hooks are dangerous and you should be careful when applying them in sparring. I just found it interesting that they were regarded as a higher concern than full power shots with a heavy stick.
     
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  19. Anarax

    Anarax Brown Belt

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    I thought the same thing, especially considering the guy on the ground was kicking him in the face and cracking him in the arm with the stick. I think the guy standing responded appropriately considering the circumstances. However; when the other guys lost their fencing masks or gloves no time was called nor any warning given, they just continued striking each other.
     
  20. Langenschwert

    Langenschwert Master Black Belt

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    Interesting thread.

    The main thing to consider when using any kind of sparring rules (armed or otherwise) is "what are we trying to accomplish?" Secondly, "how can we accomplish that with the optimal balance of realism (whatever that means in your context) and safety?" We all have jobs to go to the next day.

    Any set of sparring rules are going to be an abstraction when compared to an earnest encounter. That's why it can be useful to change the rules from time to time. Ideally, regardless of the rules, the best fighters should come out on top. If the goal is "hit the opponent on the left side of the torso while hopping on one leg", then the best fighter should be able to adapt to the game and do that. Look up "Ringen im Grublein".

    Interestingly enough, historically the rules for weapon tournaments were strangely abstract, and these were people who were in a position to have to use their skills for real. Modern HEMA tournaments don't look anything like their historical counterparts.

    Sparring rules should a least some of the time, maximally reward the techniques favoured by the system. You reverse engineer the rules to give you the results you want to see.
     
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