Wealth Inequality In America...and its perception?

[Jaeimseu]

You first then. Oh wait you don't even live here

I don't live there currently, that's true. I lived there for 31 years and I'm fairly certain that I'll live there again at some point. My current income earned outside of the US is low enough that it's exempt from US tax. If my income should exceed the threshhold for foreign earned income, I'll have to pay US taxes on it. As it stands, I pay taxes where I live and I have no problem with that.

Sent from my SHV-E210K using Tapatalk

 

[ballen0351]

Running the risk of incurring the wrath of Ballen, I think that the increasing gap between rich and poor and the increasing number of poor as the wealth is transferred to the rich will eventually cause a total social breakdown. The fact that people in your society cannot see the need to support those with very little, even though a small number may be rorting the system, goes against every tenet of civilised society. To compound that problem by blaming the poor because they haven't the means to pay tax absolutely blows my mind. Then at the other end of the scale to defend the people who have sent the jobs off shore and caused the problem in the first place all the time contributing as little as possible to the society in which they live ... amazing!
:asian:

Rich are rich and poor are poor how is that the Govts job to fix? NObody has ever said we shouldn't help the needy Hell I donate time and money to several charities. Ive built houses for habitat for humanity, done shop with a cop programs, I run my church's lunches for learning program to help really poor kids in Honduras get meals so they can stay in school. Ive gone to Honduras and helped to build schools and wells for water. So don't lecture me on helping people. I do more then my fair share. The fact remains we cannot sustain cradle to the grave welfare. I can take you to communities where I work with 4 Generations of the same family living on Govt housing. There is a 4 year waiting list to move into these houses. That's not sustainable. And the fact remains that every dollar taken from my paycheck and given to the poor is a dollar taken from my family. So while I def support helping the poor I don't really think the Govt does the best job at it. It waists more money then it helps. If spends our money on stupid stuff like a study on Duck Penis, or teaching Chinese hookers not to drink so much.

 

[ballen0351]

I don't live there currently, that's true. I lived there for 31 years and I'm fairly certain that I'll live there again at some point. My current income earned outside of the US is low enough that it's exempt from US tax. If my income should exceed the threshhold for foreign earned income, I'll have to pay US taxes on it. As it stands, I pay taxes where I live and I have no problem with that.

Sent from my SHV-E210K using Tapatalk

So you have "no skin in the game" so its easy to say take my kids money and give it to others

 

[ballen0351]

To be honest. To an outsider, reading the sentiment expressed in this thread is really, really scary.
:asian:

To be honest as an insider When it comes to money removed from MY paycheck your opinion is not my 1st concern

 

[Jaeimseu]

So you have "no skin in the game" so its easy to say take my kids money and give it to others

I had "skin in the game" for most of my adult life and will again.

Sent from my SHV-E210K using Tapatalk

 

[ballen0351]

I had "skin in the game" for most of my adult life and will again.

Sent from my SHV-E210K using Tapatalk

Your right I apologies Ive been up for 34 hours and its been a rough day. I may have been a little strong. Im just tired of being told I hate the poor because I want responsible spending of my tax dollars, and want everyone to give something even if its just a little so when they see its real money coming from there pay they might think twice about voting for the next guy that give out free gifts like Obamaphones

 

[Steve]

Oh please. I didn't know wanting the rich and Poor to pay a little into the system, you know like Obama says "put some skin in the game" was extreme. Maybe if everyone paid something we wouldn't be so free with handing out crazy programs like free cell phones. Ive never once said we shouldn't have safety nets. How ever cradle to the grave assistance Is just not sustainable. No matter how sad it is we cant as a nation keep going like this. There are 100 MIllion people getting some form of Food assistance according to the USDA. Where is that money coming from? OH yeah China. So call me whatever you want but when the money runs out all together what happens to these poor then?

Jesus Christ, ballen. Unclench. If anyone, including me, has mistakenly believed that you are opposed to safety nets, it shouldn't be any kind of surprise to you. You argue so vehemently against any welfare programs and in this thread, you've taken a pretty severe position as well. If you don't want to be viewed as an extremist, then do a better job of articulating your position. Don't blame me or anyone else.

 

[granfire]

[....] free gifts like Obamaphones

It would probably help if you would not repeat nonsense like that. These free phones have been around for much longer than the person they are 'named' after.
Not to mention they are not paid for by the government.

But posts like yours and Don's certainly put a different light on the 'war on poverty'

I think almost all of us here on the forum are in the same boat: We are doing alright, but are only one good disaster away from the poor house.

 

[ballen0351]

It would probably help if you would not repeat nonsense like that. These free phones have been around for much longer than the person they are 'named' after.
Not to mention they are not paid for by the government.

Your right they are paid for by you and I. The Govt forces Cell Phone providers to pay for these phones The cell phone provider then passes the cost on to you and I. So Yes its a Govt program paid for by a tax on the Cell phone provider. Also true they were not started by Obama. BUT I have never ever seen people set up tents in the projects to give them away until Obama took office. I watched them give a homeless man one because he helped the lady set the tent up. These stands cause near riots in the govt housing projects where I work so we have to babysit them. I shocked at the level of greed shown by these "poor" people complaining that there free phone isn't an Iphone and demanding a smart phone not wanting a cheap flip phone.

But posts like yours and Don's certainly put a different light on the 'war on poverty'

I think almost all of us here on the forum are in the same boat: We are doing alright, but are only one good disaster away from the poor house.

And our poor are nothing compared to the poor in the rest of the world so I think we are winning with over kill on our war.

 

[ballen0351]

Jesus Christ, ballen. Unclench. If anyone, including me, has mistakenly believed that you are opposed to safety nets, it shouldn't be any kind of surprise to you. You argue so vehemently against any welfare programs and in this thread, you've taken a pretty severe position as well. If you don't want to be viewed as an extremist, then do a better job of articulating your position. Don't blame me or anyone else.

Leave Jesus out of it and Calm yourself down nancy

 

[K-man]

Leave Jesus out of it and Calm yourself down nancy

It would extremely interesting if Jesus was around to read these posts. Wonder what he would make of the sentiment.

 

[ballen0351]

It would extremely interesting if Jesus was around to read these posts. Wonder what he would make of the sentiment.

Charity and loving your neighbor at gun point isn't charity or love.

 

[Jaeimseu]

Charity and loving your neighbor at gun point isn't charity or love.

A bit off topic, but what's your opinion on tithing?

Sent from my SHV-E210K using Tapatalk

 

[K-man]

Rich are rich and poor are poor how is that the Govts job to fix? NObody has ever said we shouldn't help the needy Hell I donate time and money to several charities. Ive built houses for habitat for humanity, done shop with a cop programs, I run my church's lunches for learning program to help really poor kids in Honduras get meals so they can stay in school. Ive gone to Honduras and helped to build schools and wells for water. So don't lecture me on helping people. I do more then my fair share. The fact remains we cannot sustain cradle to the grave welfare. I can take you to communities where I work with 4 Generations of the same family living on Govt housing. There is a 4 year waiting list to move into these houses. That's not sustainable. And the fact remains that every dollar taken from my paycheck and given to the poor is a dollar taken from my family. So while I def support helping the poor I don't really think the Govt does the best job at it. It waists more money then it helps. If spends our money on stupid stuff like a study on Duck Penis, or teaching Chinese hookers not to drink so much.

Actually I think research into duck penis is rather cool and it really is no different to the study of reproduction in any other species. So let's see where we can cut some expenditure.

Let's start at the Universities. Much of the research there is pretty useless. I mean we all have it pretty good at the moment and if the US universities don't get into research they can always catch up from the overseas universities that will obviously attract the disaffected from the US. Even medical research is unwarranted because that sort of research actually could save more poor people than rich people (simple arithmetic) and actually make the problem worse. Cost saving here based on 2009 figures, $33B.

Now how about some unnecessary military equipment. Holy Moly, that's 40% of global arms spending. There's at least $50B to be saved here and that's just the tip of the iceberg. There's probably another $600B of saving if you cut the armed forces, let alone the $3,700B wasted in the Middle East.

Still on the military, there are lots of guys incapacitated from their military service and a few of them will be ripping off the system. So why not same some dollars and stop those payments. Those people could just join with the rest of the poor. Savings here .. $55B.

Healthcare is a big ticket item. We don't want to be wasting money on healthcare. Everyone should have to pay there own way. And the big companies shouldn't have to pay for their employees because that reduces profits. Saving ... $2,400B.

Now let's look at nursing homes. There goes another $400B. People can sell their homes and use that money until it's gone then out on the street. Make them earn enough to pay for care. It's not fair that other workers should contribute.

Look at all those kids running around eating their heads off. They should be made to work to contribute to the family finances like they did in England a couple of hundred years ago. That would take a lot of the poor families back across the poverty line.

And infrastructure! A lot of people don't drive so why should they pay to maintain streets and roads? I know that there is a charge on fuel to cover that but you could use that money to pay the politicians and others and save $225B a year.

I reckon there's more than enough money to wipe out the debt with these savings. Mate, I never thought that I would be saying this but Ballen​, you are absolutely right. Problem solved.

 

[Makalakumu]

Charity and loving your neighbor at gun point isn't charity or love.

There is a principle buried here that would be worth examining. Anything that has to be taken at gun point for something else is theft. Think about that.

 

[elder999]

This has been interesting, but some of you have no perspective at all on this. I'll try to break it down again, but just this one last time, I hope.

I started a new job in January-I have to work a "job," almost as a condition of my trust. I could do other things, but, for me, a "job" works best right now. I like my job. It'll pay me nearly $130,000 this year. No small salary, but hardly CEO or even mid-level exec. pay in the company I'm in. Out of that salary, I'll pay something close to 40% in income taxes. That's $52,000-and some, like billc, would say, "Isn't that enough?" Of course, that's not all I'll pay.

Years and years ago, now, my accountant, Sy Levy, now long years dead, alas, told me I should invest in a few companies, so I did. It was right after the stock market crash of 1987-my father and grandfather had died earlier in the year, and my uncle, who was only 8 years older than me, was gonna be dead in a month, and I was looking for distractions beyond work at the nuke plant, martial arts and travel, so I was investing in real estate and the market. Sy said I should buy some Walmart stock, so I did.

I bought a lot. It was undervalued because of the crash, and I bought some-I bought a lot, actually.(Look it up: 26 years ago today Walmart opened at about $22 a share, and closed at about $3.50. It was a Friday, and, come Monday-what the Russian fellow in that Direct TV commercial say? You know, the one with the miniature giraffe? I jump in it! :lfao: )

Last year, dividends on my Walmart stock paid a lot. Like, a little bit more than I'll make this year. This year, my Walmart dividends will pay about the same. Of course, those dividends don't get taxed at nearly the same rate as my salary-or yours, whoever you are-so I'll clear over $100000 from Walmart. Money I've done nothing to earn. Money that doesn't represent my work. Money that won't "trickle down" to the poor in any way (and, trust me, I know about trickle down-I run a vineyard, and support lots of people at the poverty level-it has nothing to do with my Walmart stock, though.)

Money, in essence, that is mine, and mine alone, and will remain mine for all time.

There was a lot of fuss during the last election about Mitt Romney having waaaayyyy more money in an IRA than anyone knew to be possible. Of course, it's possible. Would you like to know how?

There's a class of IRA that allows depositors to place stocks in it, and set the value of those stocks themselves. It's that simple, and a little complicated. For instance-my father in law, a Los Alamos National Laboratory Fellow- (I'm just a physicist; Ivars is an 83 year old retiree who gets paid to come into work and do whatever he wants) helped invent a process that impregnates textiles with chemicals, among other things. Those Dockers that shed spills? Same kinda thing, but a different process. He and some other people got a license to their own patent, and had a start-up company to develop the process for commercial applications. I've got- I dunno, really-something like 600000 shares in their company.

All worth less than 0.1 cents each. That's not "one cent," that's less than 1/10th of a cent. I put them in an IRA, at that value. Should the company get a big government contract, or some other success, I'll have 600000+ shares of tax-free stock in an IRA.

Of course, that might never happen-and I won't starve if it doesn't. If it does, though, well, you know what they say:

The rich get richer.

Of course, as far as the "rich" go, I'm really very small potatoes. Imagine for a minute, though, that I'm, I dunno.....Walmart.

That's right. The same rules apply to almost all of Walmart's income. And corporations are "persons." Persons who don't pay any income taxes. Time was, when I was a lad, that the "tax base" of a community was a direct effect of the corporate entities doing business there. Now, corporations are permitted to evade payment just as all "persons" are. Legally, of course.

And you really think that if you just work hard you'll get ahead? The rules are rigged against you. Hell, the rules are just barely not rigged against me!

 

[Tames D]

It would extremely interesting if Jesus was around to read these posts. Wonder what he would make of the sentiment.

I hear that he is around here. Everywhere. So, apparently it doesen't bother him.

 

[Makalakumu]

And you really think that if you just work hard you'll get ahead? The rules are rigged against you. Hell, the rules are just barely not rigged against me!

I could be wrong in sensing there is much more written between the lines here, so I'll just ask a question. What rules are you referring to?

 

[K-man]

I hear that he is around here. Everywhere. So, apparently it doesen't bother him.

I think our friend from the TMA/MMA thread would want to put his hand in Jesus' side.
:asian:

 

[granfire]

Your right they are paid for by you and I. The Govt forces Cell Phone providers to pay for these phones The cell phone provider then passes the cost on to you and I. So Yes its a Govt program paid for by a tax on the Cell phone provider. Also true they were not started by Obama. BUT I have never ever seen people set up tents in the projects to give them away until Obama took office. I watched them give a homeless man one because he helped the lady set the tent up. These stands cause near riots in the govt housing projects where I work so we have to babysit them. I shocked at the level of greed shown by these "poor" people complaining that there free phone isn't an Iphone and demanding a smart phone not wanting a cheap flip phone.


And our poor are nothing compared to the poor in the rest of the world so I think we are winning with over kill on our war.

Yeah, the 'eat up, there are children starving in India' bit.
Our poor is different than in other places of the world: we can't barter for life's necessities or bring a chicken to pay the doctor.

But you keep missing the point:
We are all just one major catastrophy away from becoming this poor!