Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by TMA17, Oct 23, 2017.
Thought this was really good and so important to WC.
We don't hit we crash, we don't step we crash. Foot placement is important.
Footwork must become so natural and functional that it happens spontaneously. But I don't really click with the explanation here. We train differently.
If someone presses our center with a palm as demonstrated, we use their force to move our center aside (rather than backward), maintaining forward intent. Even if we must yield backward, the analogy I prefer is that of a compressed spring. What is stated in this video is far less clear to me!
This is how I was taught to move. There is no footwork in the WC I practice. Move the Center and forget about the feet. The feet know what to do. Everything begins from the Center. A subtle, but different, approach to movement. Certainly not everyone's cup of tea.
To look at the footwork and mobility, you have to look at the basic training. Does your style train:
- 1 step 3 punches.
- 1 step 2 punches.
- 1 step 1 punch.
- 2 steps 1 punch.
- 3 steps 1 punch.
- Jump forward from 15 feet away.
- Jump backward to 10 feet away.
Here is an example.
This form may take 1/2 the basketball field to train. Many useful footwork and mobility are in it. From 0.41 - 0.43, the "running punches" footwork is included.
I'm baffled when people say there's no footwork in WC. Firstly, Yip Man talked about the importance of footwork and kicking and there are WC maxims about this I believe. Secondly, we need to go back to the forms to see that WC is full of footwork -- wooden dummy and knife form are good examples. Long pole and BJ too. Of course Chum Kiu. The stance in SLT is mainly for training structure, not a fighting stance. The key is learning the applications from the forms for leg sweeps, takedowns, angling, distancing, strategic retreating, etc.
Lots of folks really have not learned good wing chun footwork!!
I think he was talking in terms of mental intention, ie. Think about moving my centre to x spot rather than think of moving my feet.
Footwork is foot placement and is a very important component. Move your center and don't use footwork...let's see what happens.
This type of footwork looks more practical to me for WC movement. See the footwork at the 27:30 mark
The lean back that was in the original video goes against one of my teaching of stances:
You can only retreat as far as your rear foot.
If both feet are side by side then the retreat distance is zero when a person steps back. You can see proof of this in the OP's video. Watch where his stance begins and where his feet end. One moves back while the other stands in place. The closer the feet are together the shorter the retreat will be. A longer stance will allow a longer retreat.
The guy in the OP's videos confuses shuffle while in stance with, jumping forward or backward in the stance. Similar movement to the Wing Chun guy in the top video
Side view of shuffling. It's possible to do the same shuffle with a smaller stance but the maximum distance for retreat will still be as far as the rear foot. Trying to move beyond that will turn it into more of a hop where it's almost like jumping.
I like this footwork. When you move your leg in a curve, if you can turn your shin bone outside, you can use your shin bone to "smash" your opponent's leading leg and destroy his rooting.
The foot turning is shown in this picture.
This is one of the drills we use to train multiple techniques at once. The move that you pointed out trains the following.
shuffling movement while in horse
taking angles, building up leg muscle, leg endurance and coordination (when the feet come together)
stepping inside the lead leg
stepping behind our opponents leg
bumping into an opponent to knock them off balance
the movement for thrust punch
and breaking root.
7 different techniques that I know of use that same movement. The one technique that you pointed we train on each other, but at a slow pace so not to get injured. It can be a brutal root break depending on how it catches the lead leg and how much weight your opponent has on it. I rarely hear people talk about as you stated. I thought the karate guys would be all into it because they have similar movement when they step into bow.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. The training is pretty hard. You have to run your shin bone into a small tree trunk daily.
Not sure this is one of the WC footwork though. I'm a bit afraid to mention non-WC skill in a WC thread after I have been labeled as a "troll".
Lol. I'm going to find a WC practitioner doing similar footwork drills so we don't get in trouble.
Again, it's more about not getting caught up on foot placement than a literal statement of not using the feet.
Some wing chun footwork
I understand and even agree on the premise of not thinking about footwork but one must have the foot movement, positions, and stance structure developed. He even talks of having no stance in fighting just move. Again I can agree with that for stances are fleeting, they are but a moment in time. However, the practitioner needs points of transitions where the center can be directed in many possible directions. If the feet are not in the proper positions that will curtail the possibilities, even leaving the practitioner vulnerable.
The statement that there is no footwork or that we don't need footwork is just plain wrong.
The movement of one's center is how we walk; which is really nothing more than a controlled fall. We don't think about walking or using our feet we just do. I believe that is the concept he is putting forth and agree in the premise within a particular range or distance of movement. Not all fighting, even in wc, will be within the confined range he is expressing in the video.
Just to add to this. It's possible by take away an opponents options just by denying him the footwork and placement that he needs in order to execute that option. Everything is born from the root (foot placement / stance).
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