Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by Kung Fu Wang, Jan 15, 2019.
Can you believe that WC Bong Shou can be used in wrestling?
Lan Sao, not bong sao but Lan Sao is what you show in the above videos.
However, I agree in that bong sao movement a structure can be use in several grappling situations.
If you receive force that's best responded with to a bong sau, sure.
What's seen in the video isn't a bong sau though, which is important because bong is actually an incredibly weak position in and of itself which certainly shouldn't be held for any length of time and certainly not as a barring movement.
Marnetmar, I disagree with you on bong sao being an incredible weak position.
Bong Sao though not the strongest structure in wc when presented properly is a very strong structure and can hold a lot of pressure. I also agree strongly it is not to used to hold pressure or to bar movement. If one's bong sao isn't structurally sound due to improper mechanics and positioning of the elbow & shoulder you are correct in it being incredible weak. Same can be said of every wc structure being presented improperly.
Danny is spot on with this. Just because John has his arm in a bong-sau-like shape doesn't mean it is functioning like a bong (at least as we conceive of it in my lineage). The movement in the clip has energy and function of a lan-sau.
...and yes, why not use it in grappling?
I used a WC Bong Sau / Fak Sau movement in BJJ (basically jacketed wrestling) once and mentally filed it away as a viable technique for the future, and have used it a couple times since.
When standing, you often initiate by getting a grip with your power hand (right hand for most people) on opponent's lapel / collar. It can be a stiff arm to control distance, or to off balance their body to begin taking them down. Well, when someone grabbed my right sleeve end and was pushing my hand away from their body (keeping me from getting the grip on their lapel that I wanted), I used a Bong Sau type movement to move their arm across my body. I then allowed my bong sau to compress and I stepped in with my elbow over the top of their elbow (like the Bong Sau / Fak Sau drill that many WT folks do regularly), which pinned their arm and forced them to give up the sleeve grip they had. My right hand, now free, was able to grab their lapel like I originally wanted, and they had now lost the space that they were trying to maintain in the first place.
Very different application then in WC, but the principle was still there - they were pushing and I used the bong arm to deflect that force off my centerline.
Something like this?
Not quite, since the main thing it allowed me to do was step in and bring my bong elbow over the top of their elbow after pushing the arm across. I bet if I look long enough, I would probably find a video of a Judoka teaching something similar as part of grip breaking. A two on one type of grip break is common, but sometimes if they have both of your sleeves, you have to get creative.
Framing could be considered something kung fuey I imagine.
Framing (of some sort) has been something in all grappling, clinching aspect of everything I've experienced.
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