Way my club trains self defence

[Gerry Seymour]

The hanging of a punch lol that early on in any training

You can very easily progress from there by increasing velocity and in my art that is actually very important if you really want to start learning and not have your uke help you out

More than velocity, continuing to respond (from uke) is important. If I punch at full speed, but still leave my arm out once it's intercepted, all my partner needs is a decent block and the rest is easy. If I pull my arm back, follow up with a second attack, etc., they have to learn to find the right opening, rather than expecting the right opening off every attack.

 

[now disabled]

It seems strange to me that any school teaching striking...in any style...would discourage movement and distance control.

I doubt any do my friend ...it may be that what is being taught is not fully being understood ...distance as you know is important in all arts and kinda crucial if anything is going to actually work

 

[Martial D]

I doubt any do my friend ...it may be that what is being taught is not fully being understood ...distance as you know is important in all arts and kinda crucial if anything is going to actually work

But he just said they did in the post I quoted. I see no reason to assume he is lying.

 

[now disabled]

More than velocity, continuing to respond (from uke) is important. If I punch at full speed, but still leave my arm out once it's intercepted, all my partner needs is a decent block and the rest is easy. If I pull my arm back, follow up with a second attack, etc., they have to learn to find the right opening, rather than expecting the right opening off every attack.

I agree

As I said uke has to be good uke and know when to help (a beginner) and when to as it put refse to help and that could be by doing many things ..............that to me is very important esp when people reach yudansha as by then no uke should be helping

 

[now disabled]

But he just said they did in the post I quoted. I see no reason to assume he is lying.

Ok I am not saying you are are wrong ,I am saying maybe he is mistaken lol

 

[Martial D]

Ok I am not saying you are are wrong ,I am saying maybe he is mistaken lol

Ehh. Could be.

I have encountered some pretty inept 'teachers' in my time though(both inside and out of the martial arts world). Unfortunately not everyone is as qualified as they would like you to think.

 

[now disabled]

Ehh. Could be.

I have encountered some pretty inept 'teachers' in my time though(both inside and out of the martial arts world). Unfortunately not everyone is as qualified as they would like you to think.

This is true lol not all teachers may be as qualified as one would like

I don't know a heck of a lot about Kenpo/Kempo but distance is important in any tech as if it wrong then well the outcome may well disappoint lol

 

[skribs]

Lol ok superhero I will leave totally

The variation again is not hard to do and that comes as people progress on the path

I will only say that in Aikido to fully engage in the aiki side you have to have the velocity or many tech you will have to generate the power yourself ...hope that makes sense

The point is that it had terrible choreography.

 

[now disabled]

The point is that it had terrible choreography.

You mean the movies? lol

 

[JR 137]

Ive thought aboat this from the ppint of view of my own class, which varies from extremly gentle to very alive dependent on who there and who your drilling with, the largest % of students object if you throw full speed punches off target, any meaning full attack which hurts, even if the hurt comes from a succesful block, causes them to become distressed and not come back. hit a focus pad hard and they go home with a sore wrist, Which has lead to the instructer having a word about terrorising his charges.

This isnt the fault of the class or the style, its just that most of the people who have decided to learn karate as an adult are physically abd mentally weak. Which is probebly why they want to lear karrate,
This will ultimately lead to them progressing througj a good fdw belts whilst never picking up the conditioning and reactions to ever make use of it.

There was a Big Guy who was up for LIVE drilling with real attacks till hE missed a block ( i punched with a left, right when we weree drilking right left )and i knocked him over, now he doesnt want to play any more. Which only leaves big Floyd and he doesnts come every week, t

Fliping milennials, they have no back bone

Like I tell the newbies who ask about which dojo to join, part of my rant is who you’re training alongside is more important than the style itself.

If there’s no one that’s willing to mix it up a bit, I’m going to get bored. I’m not there to play patty-cakes. I’m not there to go full out day in and day out either though. Been there, done that.

And the level of contact and speed absolutely depends on who’s in front of you. There’s some people who I always hold back with; either they’ve got nagging injuries, not ready for that, or similar. I know who I’m going to go hard with and who I’m not. Good thing I’ve got enough people to do both with, typically in the same session.

But if people complained about holding or hitting focus mitts being too painful, they wouldn’t last very long.

 

[JR 137]

Ive thought aboat this from the ppint of view of my own class, which varies from extremly gentle to very alive dependent on who there and who your drilling with, the largest % of students object if you throw full speed punches off target, any meaning full attack which hurts, even if the hurt comes from a succesful block, causes them to become distressed and not come back. hit a focus pad hard and they go home with a sore wrist, Which has lead to the instructer having a word about terrorising his charges.

This isnt the fault of the class or the style, its just that most of the people who have decided to learn karate as an adult are physically abd mentally weak. Which is probebly why they want to lear karrate,
This will ultimately lead to them progressing througj a good fdw belts whilst never picking up the conditioning and reactions to ever make use of it.

There was a Big Guy who was up for LIVE drilling with real attacks till hE missed a block ( i punched with a left, right when we weree drilking right left )and i knocked him over, now he doesnt want to play any more. Which only leaves big Floyd and he doesnts come every week, t

Fliping milennials, they have no back bone

Like I tell the newbies who ask about which dojo to join, part of my rant is who you’re training alongside is more important than the style itself.

If there’s no one that’s willing to mix it up a bit, I’m going to get bored. I’m not there to play patty-cakes. I’m not there to go full out day in and day out either though. Been there, done that.

And the level of contact and speed absolutely depends on who’s in front of you. There’s some people who I always hold back with; either they’ve got nagging injuries, not ready for that, or similar. I know who I’m going to go hard with and who I’m not. Good thing I’ve got enough people to do both with, typically in the same session.

But if people complained about holding or hitting focus mitts being too painful, they wouldn’t

I noticed a lot of this when I was watching Marvel's Iron Fist. The hanging of a punch so someone could do something with it.

So at what point do you take the prearranged drill and either start experimenting with different things you can do, or else have the attacker vary the attack and expect the defender to deal with that new complication? (i.e. instead of a single reverse punch, defend against a combo).

The resistance increases when the attacker feels you’re ready, in a sense. Usually the teacher will set that tone. Everyone’s different and there’s no set rank for that. And it depends on the drill.

We have “basic self defenses” that are taught to 10th kyu to 6th kyu. They stop going going easy on you around 5th kyu when you’ve had enough time to get them all down. Then there’s “intermediate self defenses” from 5th-2nd kyu. By 2nd kyu, no one’s giving you anything easily, so to speak.

No one’s throwing counter punches at you during this time, but you’re definitely blocking and moving. You’re definitely on target with your counters. You’re definitely not taking your seeet time. If you mess up, you’ll they’ll do something to surprise you and make sure you’re doing things right. The intermediate ones all involve a sweep. After you’ve got them down enough, people will stand there and not move when you’re trying to sweep them. It’ll be “try again” “try again” now actually sweep me.” Once you can actually sweep them, they’ll try to avoid it. Obviously they’ll play along a little bit, as it’s way to easy to avoid something you know for certain is coming. If you don’t have your distance, timing, angle, etc. right, no one’s going to fall. If you take too long, no one’s going to give you anything. There’s a fine line between not allowing it and allowing the defender to do his thing. Most of the upper ranks have a good grasp of that line.

We also have prearranged sparring sequences taught between about 8th kyu-2nd kyu. There’s no holding anything out and letting them counter; it’s a constant back and forth. The nature of them doesn’t allow many mistakes. If your hands are down, you’re going to get hit. If you don’t block, you’re getting hit. Wrong move, you’re getting hit. If your distance and timing aren’t right, you’re either getting hit or not connecting. At first the higher ranks will work with you to make sure you’re doing them right. Then the speed will increase. Then the power will increase. When done right by two people who know what they’re doing, it looks like an all out sparring match if you don’t know it’s choreographed. When not done well, it looks like people who just don’t know how to fight.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Ehh. Could be.

I have encountered some pretty inept 'teachers' in my time though(both inside and out of the martial arts world). Unfortunately not everyone is as qualified as they would like you to think.

I, personally, am not nearly as qualified as I think.

 

[pdg]

So at what point do you take the prearranged drill and either start experimenting with different things you can do, or else have the attacker vary the attack and expect the defender to deal with that new complication? (i.e. instead of a single reverse punch, defend against a combo).

I can't think of any of our prearranged drills that are based on a single reverse punch.

Some are based on a punch (obverse or reverse), but they use both sides.

Doing "free" drills (attack how you like, defend how you like) I was introduced to at around yellow belt (8th kup) and have been doing since.

 

[skribs]

I can't think of any of our prearranged drills that are based on a single reverse punch.

Some are based on a punch (obverse or reverse), but they use both sides.

Doing "free" drills (attack how you like, defend how you like) I was introduced to at around yellow belt (8th kup) and have been doing since.

I wish we'd do those more. As we've discussed in other threads, I think part of this is because you CAN punch to the head in ITF sparring, and so it makes more sense to drill those.

In KKW you can't punch to the head or grapple, which is why most KKW curriculums don't evolve their punch defense or grapple defense beyond a simple reverse punch or a single grab.

 

[pdg]

I wish we'd do those more. As we've discussed in other threads, I think part of this is because you CAN punch to the head in ITF sparring, and so it makes more sense to drill those.

In KKW you can't punch to the head or grapple, which is why most KKW curriculums don't evolve their punch defense or grapple defense beyond a simple reverse punch or a single grab.

Possibly, but our step sparring drills aren't so influenced by free sparring at all.

In (our) ITF free sparring you can't use elbows or knees, or kick below the belt - but that's all in the scripted prearranged stuff and is perfectly acceptable in the "free" step drills. If you like, I'll pm you pics of the prearranged 3 and 2 step sparring drill instructions?


Here's another one you might like...

So both parties start facing each other, one is assigned primary attacker.

They attack with whatever they like, the other defends.

On the 3rd, 4th or 5th attack, the defender counters after that block/defence.

That counter is also when the roles change - so it becomes the first attack in the series of 3-5 that the other must defend against and choose when to counter

Repeat seamlessly.

 

[skribs]

Possibly, but our step sparring drills aren't so influenced by free sparring at all.

In (our) ITF free sparring you can't use elbows or knees, or kick below the belt - but that's all in the scripted prearranged stuff and is perfectly acceptable in the "free" step drills. If you like, I'll pm you pics of the prearranged 3 and 2 step sparring drill instructions?


Here's another one you might like...

So both parties start facing each other, one is assigned primary attacker.

They attack with whatever they like, the other defends.

On the 3rd, 4th or 5th attack, the defender counters after that block/defence.

That counter is also when the roles change - so it becomes the first attack in the series of 3-5 that the other must defend against and choose when to counter

Repeat seamlessly.

Sounds kind of like what we do in Hapkido, one person is the attacker and the defender must make him tap. Once that happens, roles switch.

 

[now disabled]

I, personally, am not nearly as qualified as I think.

lol no but you can do break falls in a motel room lol lol lol