Was Oyama fake?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by 666, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Brown Belt

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    Haha yeah for sure, come April I'll recount the session and stories ;)
     
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  2. Nicholas82555

    Nicholas82555 Orange Belt

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    Whether ox or bull, it still takes a tremendous amount of strength to say the least.........
     
  3. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Taken from an interview with Jon Bluming, a 6th degree under Mas. Take it for what its worth, but he also seems to agree that Mas Oyama was a great martial artist that had alot of "Paul Bunyan" stories told about him.

    Another article that goes through many of the Oyama stories about his time in America.
    Mas Oyama in America | The Martial Way
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2018
  4. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Bluming isn’t the most reliable source. He’s contradicted himself many times, and he’s said many things about people that are proven to be all out lies, either intentional lies or unknowing lies. Some his personal accounts about things that happened during his own training (stories, not who he’s trained with that I know of) have also been proven false.

    I haven’t seen any video of Bluming fighting nor training, but by all accounts he’s a phenomenal MAist. His word just isn’t up to his MA skills’ standards. I have no idea if he’s being factual or not in this interview, but I wouldn’t put much weight in whatever he says. That being said, I’ve read the same stuff from different people close to Oyama, so it’s likely not that far off.

    Oyama’s “legend” for lack of a better word, is immense. I’m sure the tales of his feats have been highly embellished. But his skill as a karateka can’t be denied. And his teaching skill is at least equally impressive; just look at his direct students.
     
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  5. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Here’s an example of Jon Bluming’s ranting. A lot of the stuff he says are outright incorrect. A lot is true, only the truth is exaggerated a bit.

    Example of outright lie (knowing or unknowingly) is when he discussed Tadashi Nakamura. He said Nakamura gave himself a 10th dan when he left Kyokushin even though he didn’t meet the acceptable age in Japanese customs. Nakamura is currently 9th dan. The truth is Nakamura was promoted to 7th dan by Oyama at an earlier than usual age, due to his teaching ability, spreading of Kyokushin, fighting ability, etc. Nakamura did not promote himself when he left. He remained 7th dan for quite some time. He was promoted to 8th and later on 9th dan by a Japanese budo organization. I don’t know the organization’s name; Nakamura doesn’t mention when and who. My teacher (Nakamura’s direct student) told me about it a while back, but it’s not any big thing in our organization. Allegedly, Nakamura has said several times that he’ll never accept a 10th dan as long as he’s alive.

    And the Shigeru Oyama stuff is pretty far off. I know a few people who studied under him (including my teacher) who’d just shake their heads and laugh at Bluming’s comments regarding him.
     
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  6. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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  7. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Brown Belt

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    Ah that interview was interesting... Yeah Bluming is an interesting one... never know if he's telling the truth, but he does show alot of agendas he has from one interview I saw, quite defensive and so on, but who knows what happened I guess!
     
  8. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    That's why I put the caveat in there about, "take it for what its worth". I thought the second article was much more objective.

    Either way, it's hard to argue about the results of Oyama's training and what he was capable of passing on and creating with his style.

    I remember reading an article about some of the "martial legends" that surround some of the great masters of the past and if they were "true" or not. It pointed out that their main purpose was to challenge students to push themselves harder and farther to try and achieve those results. If the bar isn't set high on what could be done, who knows how far we can go. I thought that was an interesting look at the stories.
     
  9. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    As an aside, if you like reading, there are two books on amazon (also kindle version) about two of Oyama's foreign Uchi Deshi's: Judd Reid and Nicholas Pettas.

    Nicholas Pettas: Blue Eyed Samurai
    Judd Reid: The Young Lions

    Together, they were the first and last foreign students that were personal Uchi Deshi under Oyama that completed the 1000 day program.
     
  10. KabutoKouji

    KabutoKouji Green Belt

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    I must read that Nicholas Pettas book - I liked him from presenting Imagine-Nation on NHK before I knew he was Kyokushin
     
  11. punisher73

    punisher73 Senior Master

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    Out of the two books, I like Mr. Pettas' book better. In all honesty, I have probably read and reread it 5-6 times. Usually about once a year or so. I find that it helps motivate me for hard training.
     
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