Was Oyama fake?

Discussion in 'Karate' started by 666, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. 666

    666 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Sounds like a good way to get killed lol.
     
  2. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7,643
    Likes Received:
    4,461
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Maui
    Rodeo guys. Those are some seriously tough people.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2014
    Messages:
    15,140
    Likes Received:
    3,259
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Wrangler? I thought that W stood for wide.

    Rodeos are a weird culture. There is so much image and status attached to everything. People who own cattle stations are like their own little kingdoms. They won't even talk to you.
     
  4. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    3,249
    Likes Received:
    1,765
    Trophy Points:
    353
    Location:
    In the dojo
    While I’m not hip to rodeo culture, I THINK there’s a bit of a divide between actual ranchers (or whatever they’re called) who compete and rodeo guys who do it solely as a sport and aren’t actual ranchers.
     
  5. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Geelong, Victoria, Australia
    Osu guys! Hahaha I love the direction this thread has taken XD.

    Am not 100% sure about Sosai Oyama. My background is primarily Kyokushin, and our Branch Chief trained directly under Oyama many many times and lived up there for a bit. At our annual Sosai Memorial training sessions, after training we would all sit down and Shihancho would tell us all stories about Oyama. According to him he did indeed fight bulls, kill a few too, chopped off the horns, and many other insane feats, like doing the 100 man kumite three days in a row (300 man kumite). He apparently wanted to keep going but they couldn't as they had no people left to spar him (most were injured). Considering the absolutely incredible/insane feat that the 100 man kumite is (of course the format may differ depending on the time/place), 300 man is just ridiculous, but apparently it was recorded that it was done.

    I guess with any martial arts history/feats it's best to take them with a grain of salt. Our branch chief told these stories as though they were true, and I think to a large degree they are. Lots of things obviously do get hyped up, but he was an incredible martial artist and not many like him in a sense that I'm aware of.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  6. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    2,481
    Likes Received:
    972
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Location:
    Saline
    Sorry. No way he broke the horns off with knife hand strikes.

    Just from a physics standpoint...the horn is able to withstand way more pressure than what a human could generate.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. 666

    666 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Was he there when he fought bulls? Or how does he know for sure?
    And feel free to tell us all the stories xD
    This is interesting.
     
  8. 666

    666 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    How do you know? Like I'm not trying to defend Oyama but it would be nice if you'd give us some sort of I dunno, information xD
    Like an article about bull horns or something like that lol, that states how much pressure one can take.
     
  9. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Geelong, Victoria, Australia
    Hehe yeah fair enough. Like I said, grain of salt :). That's what was said, but no idea if true (or possible). I remember him saying that alot of people have said many many times that nah it's impossible the stuff he did, but branch chief was convinced and said it is definitely all true. Who knows!
    Not sure, I don't think he was there, but it's possible. He'd been training for 40+ years so don't know. I do know that when people idolise others they can exaggerate details all in the name of defending their idol/high projected status. But I won't say that that is the case. He was definitely an incredible martial artist in a whole other league for sure, and did many things. Just hard to prove anything.

    Can't remember many other stories sorry, just ones where after training they would all go out for dinner and have a few beers and laughs, and that Oyama was a really kindhearted man, full of integrity and a true martial artist. Judd Reid says the same thing about Oyama. But it's impossible to prove anything from the past, can only go by recounts and what people have said from actual experience.

    If I remember any other stories I'll be sure to post!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. 666

    666 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Like your perspectives, really "balanced"
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2017
    Messages:
    2,481
    Likes Received:
    972
    Trophy Points:
    253
    Location:
    Saline
    Because I grew up on a farm raising cows.

    They use their horns to hit and hook things.....a 1000-1500 pound bull hits with a lot more force than a human. Their horns are made to withstand that force.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  12. 666

    666 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    At 5:26 for like half a second you can see subtitles saying that he sliced the horn off after the kill and they edited it the other way around, so... can't say for sure what that means but it could mean that the "horn-strike" in the video didn't work and he chopped it off after the fight, which mean the audience saw Oyama chopping a bulls horn off. And if the bull was dead, probably on the ground, means that the angle the horn flew would make more sense. I don't know... just a theory xD

    Well, DAMN the whole documentary with subtitles is blocked due to copyright fukk this bs.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  13. Grenadier

    Grenadier Administrator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2005
    Messages:
    10,537
    Likes Received:
    523
    Trophy Points:
    263
    There's no question that a lot of stories can get rather embellished throughout the years, and the stories about Masutatsu Oyama's superhuman feats are no exception to this rule of thumb. I'm sure that any notable historical figure in the martial arts would have something similar going on as well.

    Despite the embellishments, there's no question that Oyama was one hell of a tough customer, and probably the last person with whom you'd ever want to get into a fist fight.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

    • MartialTalk Mentor
    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2011
    Messages:
    7,643
    Likes Received:
    4,461
    Trophy Points:
    448
    Location:
    Maui
    He certainly had the look.

    Oyama.jpeg
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. 666

    666 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
  16. 666

    666 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Okay, in this interview Oyama claims to have fought MANY armed opponents, then his partner says (why not Oyama tho?) he parried the sword with his bare hands (grabbed the blade in mid air with both hands) and defeated the swordsman by side kick.
    He also describes his fight with Tom Rice.
    Don't know how accurate the the translation is tho.
     
  17. 666

    666 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    What are you doing different in that training session?
     
  18. 666

    666 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Oh, or is it just the end part? The sitting down and stories?
     
  19. _Simon_

    _Simon_ Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2018
    Messages:
    584
    Likes Received:
    188
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Geelong, Victoria, Australia
    Basically it's just more of a commemorative session to honour the founder of Kyokushin. Because there are many dojo within the branch, most of us all come together to train together under the one roof. A lot of people in the room! We even used have the traditional drum to start the session :D

    We do a solid intense kihon session, ido geiko (moving basics, combinations), some kata, and end with spirited kumite. So overall nothing too different, but it's just a great chance for us all to get together to sweat it out and devote it to Sosai. Then at the end we all sit down and our Branch Chief shares stories about Sosai and his time with him. Different parts of Sosai's life, what he really emphasised in the dojo etc.

    I love the sessions, and even though I'm not training properly within the branch anymore I'll probably still go to this years in April :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. 666

    666 Orange Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2017
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Sounds really good, hopefully you'll still use this site then, so you can maybe share some Oyama stories :D
    That just really interests me :arghh:
     

Share This Page