Video of my 7 year old rolling at a TKD tourney

[Pyrock]

Here is a link to a Youtube video of my 7 year old son's Sports Jiu Jitsu match during his TKD tournament. They teach sports jiu jitsu as part of the TKD program. He has also been with a Gracie BJJ gym for about 5 months. I just thought I'd share...

He had 4 Tae Kwon Do sparring matches before this Jiu Jitsu match so he was a bit tired and seemed to be rushing things a bit. He's only 7 so I cut him some slack ;-)

Oh, he's the smaller one in the white gi and white belt. The other kid was 8-9 years old, noticeably larger, and just received his black belt in TKD.

 

[Tez3]

Your lad was game but why is he against an opponent bigger than him as well as a higher grade? That doesn't happen in the adults comps let alone childrens. I don't want to throw cold water on what he obviously enjoys but there were only two BJJ techniques there, the rest just rolling around on the floor trying for a choke. The shoot was a good attempt but he should be shown how to do it properly
You can't grapple properly with sparring mitts on nor can you grapple with headguards on. head shots, kicks and punches makes it MMA as I said before and 7 is way to young to compete in MMA. Here they don't until they are 14 and then it's no head shots.

I understand you are very proud of him and I really don't want to throw cold water on that but I think you should have a look at U Tube at some BJJ and see what it really is. It's not what the lads were doing I'm afraid.

 

[terryl965]

Looks like he did a great job.

 

[Tez3]

Looks like he did a great job.

He did! no doubts but it's worrying all the same.

 

[Pyrock]

Your lad was game but why is he against an opponent bigger than him as well as a higher grade? That doesn't happen in the adults comps let alone childrens. I don't want to throw cold water on what he obviously enjoys but there were only two BJJ techniques there, the rest just rolling around on the floor trying for a choke. The shoot was a good attempt but he should be shown how to do it properly
You can't grapple properly with sparring mitts on nor can you grapple with headguards on. head shots, kicks and punches makes it MMA as I said before and 7 is way to young to compete in MMA. Here they don't until they are 14 and then it's no head shots.

I understand you are very proud of him and I really don't want to throw cold water on that but I think you should have a look at U Tube at some BJJ and see what it really is. It's not what the lads were doing I'm afraid.

I guess I better clear some things up here...

The tournament was not a BJJ tourny, it was a Tae Kwon Do tournament that included some Japanese Jiu Jitsu as part of the program. In addition to his Tae Kwon Do school, my son also attends a Gracie BJJ school for about 5 months now. He also does Folk Wrestling once a week at the community center. Yes, headgear is not the best thing when grappling but it's the rules so my son has to comply.

I DO understand what Brazilian Jiu Jitsu is. I dont study it but I am present at every class at the Gracie Acadamy where my son takes lessons and I follow it closely so I can help him when I can.

As for his shooting, BJJ technique, and what you call "just rolling around"...I'm sorry but he's only 7 years old. He's been taught the propper take-down techniques from both his BJJ instructors and his wrestling coach but again, he IS 7 years old and has only been into the arts for 5-6 months. Give him some time and I'm sure his take-downs will improve. How were your take-downs at 7? In fact, he just turned 7 last month! I can tell you one thing though...He will definitely beat the 14 year old kid who just started BJJ or wrestling by the time he turns 12!(at which point he will have been studying BJJ for 5+ years.

Also, he was against a slightly larger and older kid because there were no other 7 year old kids at 50lbs in the exhibition event that they called "Sports Jiu Jitsu".

 

[Pyrock]

"I don't want to throw cold water on what he obviously enjoys but there were only two BJJ techniques there, the rest just rolling around on the floor trying for a choke. The shoot was a good attempt but he should be shown how to do it properly"

Sorry but I have to make another comment about this statement....

When was the last time you saw a 7(and 8) year old execute proper BJJ techniques during a 2 minute match let alone with that stupid headgear? Let's just take it for what it is....two kids trying their best and doing what they enjoy? Did you notice the sportsmanship at the end of the match?...because THAT'S what it's all about...doing your best, sportsmanship, and respect for others.

 

[Pyrock]

Maybe this vid will demonstrate better BJJ technique...and yes, they are still wearing the silly headgear. Btw, some of the older kids opted not to wear headgear but I didn't want to take that chance if striking was involved. My son is in the all blue gi this time.

 

[SA_BJJ]

"I don't want to throw cold water on what he obviously enjoys but there were only two BJJ techniques there, the rest just rolling around on the floor trying for a choke. The shoot was a good attempt but he should be shown how to do it properly"

Sorry but I have to make another comment about this statement....

When was the last time you saw a 7(and 8) year old execute proper BJJ techniques during a 2 minute match let alone with that stupid headgear? Let's just take it for what it is....two kids trying their best and doing what they enjoy? Did you notice the sportsmanship at the end of the match?...because THAT'S what it's all about...doing your best, sportsmanship, and respect for others.

I can see where the poster was coming from because there really wasnt alot of technique. However you are absolutley right its about the kids having fun. If they are having fun then thats all that matters.
One other thing is that there are quite a few 7-8 yr old kids out there with phenomenal skill. Dont discredit them because of their age.

 

[kosho]

Great job to your son.

Kosho

 

[Pyrock]

Great job to your son.

Kosho

Thanks....he's still in the early stages of learning but I can't help but be proud of the little guy. I dont know if I could have done so well at the old age of 7. I know there's a lot of good 7 year olds out there but I'm sure there are some pushy parents as well because I see them every day at his classes. I am not one of them. All his training in the multiple martial arts are all his idea. He goes to classes because he wants to. I simply provide the ride and the $$. One day, he attended 3 consecutive classes all by his own choice. (BJJ, TKD, then Wrestling in one evening) I have never forced him to go to class or practice...well maybe once when he was wasting his time with XBox.

 

[Tez3]

Ok first of all I wasn't getting at your son in the least, he was doing well. I have problems with grappling in headguard and gloves plus headshots at that age in any competition.
Takedowns at seven, no we don't teach them at that age. We don't do headshots at that age either. Nor do we do teach chokes at that age. I do however have several 7 and 8 year olds with good solid BJJ techniques.
The boys were having fun yes but it's still not fair to match up a 7 year old white belt with a 9 year old black belt surely?
I'm all for kids enjoying themselves and I'm definately all for kids learning good sportsmanship but safely. I don't think at that age they should be striking and rolling. Seven year olds are babes bless them they shouldn't be doing what is basically MMA with head strikes headguards or not.
I know you are proud of him, who wouldn't be but it makes me fearful when I watch the videos, this time it was fun and laughs, I worry about what might happen thoug. i wouldn't have said anything if I hadn't been worried.

 

[Pyrock]

Ok first of all I wasn't getting at your son in the least, he was doing well. I have problems with grappling in headguard and gloves plus headshots at that age in any competition.
Takedowns at seven, no we don't teach them at that age. We don't do headshots at that age either. Nor do we do teach chokes at that age. I do however have several 7 and 8 year olds with good solid BJJ techniques.
The boys were having fun yes but it's still not fair to match up a 7 year old white belt with a 9 year old black belt surely?
I'm all for kids enjoying themselves and I'm definately all for kids learning good sportsmanship but safely. I don't think at that age they should be striking and rolling. Seven year olds are babes bless them they shouldn't be doing what is basically MMA with head strikes headguards or not.
I know you are proud of him, who wouldn't be but it makes me fearful when I watch the videos, this time it was fun and laughs, I worry about what might happen thoug. i wouldn't have said anything if I hadn't been worried.

I understand your input and it is much appreciated. As far as headshots, I dont think it's any different than teaching head kicks in Tae Kwon Do...at least ITA TKD. My son is always encouraged to take head shots, but controlled shots. They simply combined TKD sparring with Jiu Jitsu in the video.

In my opinion, teaching a child a martial art like Kick boxing or TKD sparring without headshots is like teaching soccer without slide tackles or football without tackles. Headshots are just part of the sport. This is why they teach control and use headgear, cups, and mouth pieces. I learned kick boxing when I was 10 years old and got hit in the head (with headgear) and I'm glad because it let me experience getting...well...hit in the head. I've seen more kids get hurt from soccer, football, or ice hockey. Martial Arts, in general, has way more precautions than those other sports. In BJJ or Tae Kwon Do, I've never seen anyone running full out at my son trying to knock him on his a$$ like they do in peewee football or skating at 20+ mph at my kid to check him against the boards like peewee ice hockey. Its all part of the sport. If you dont want to expose a kid to risks, leave him at home to rot in front of the TV playing video games or watching TV or learn powder puff BJJ <----just kidding on that last one! ;-) . Just my opinion though...nothing personal.

 

[Tez3]

I was thinking I'd probably better explain why the shoot worried me as well hadn't I? Ok as most will know when you go for the shoot the head should be to the side of your opponent, head up and close as possible against the thigh. If it's not the opponent will grab the neck in a guillotine, all it needs them is a small amount of pressure applied usually by lifting the arms and it's lights out or at least with children a very nasty scare because the arm is hard against the windpipe. Compounded by having the headguard on to get the hands and arms tangled in it has the potential to be a very nasty moment.

Okay you may think I'm imagining a lot of things that could go wrong, and didn't thank god but I referee adult MMA, it's my job to try to be one step ahead and stop potential disasters happening. Of course theres a lot of 'what if's but when teaching young children an instructor needs to do a lot of risk assessments before deciding what is suitable for children to do and while still keeping the sense of adventure and daring there for them prevent actual disasters happening.

I found this video of kids doing BJJ and this is exactly how our kids do it.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu7EcXnONLQ&feature=related

 

[Tez3]

In all the karate and TSD classes I've been in over the years none of these have done headshots with 7 year old white belts I'm afraid.
I'm not saying that children shouldn't do headshots as such, my club after all is a fighting club not a sport club but not against very young children. There is a time and place for everyhting.

 

[Pyrock]

I was thinking I'd probably better explain why the shoot worried me as well hadn't I? Ok as most will know when you go for the shoot the head should be to the side of your opponent, head up and close as possible against the thigh. If it's not the opponent will grab the neck in a guillotine, all it needs them is a small amount of pressure applied usually by lifting the arms and it's lights out or at least with children a very nasty scare because the arm is hard against the windpipe. Compounded by having the headguard on to get the hands and arms tangled in it has the potential to be a very nasty moment.

Okay you may think I'm imagining a lot of things that could go wrong, and didn't thank god but I referee adult MMA, it's my job to try to be one step ahead and stop potential disasters happening. Of course theres a lot of 'what if's but when teaching young children an instructor needs to do a lot of risk assessments before deciding what is suitable for children to do and while still keeping the sense of adventure and daring there for them prevent actual disasters happening.

I found this video of kids doing BJJ and this is exactly how our kids do it.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu7EcXnONLQ&feature=related

I agree with your analysis of the shoot. In fact, I told him the same thing after the match AND this is why I'm not a fan of the headgear. In fact, I'm on the fence whether or not it's safer to NOT use headgear when grappling.

 

[Tez3]

On the point of head shots and why children shouldn't be doing them head guards or not. Brain damage is caused when the head is hit and the brain inside moves and hits the skull causing bleeding and bruising. The head guards only dampen the energy of the strike it doesn't stop the brain moving inside, to be truly effective the guard would have to be wrapped around the brain not the outside of the head. Children of a young age should not be subjected to head strikes, their skulls aren't fullly formed anyway and the brain cannot take repeated moving inside the skull, think of shaken baby syndrome.
It's one of the reasons boxing has so many brain injuries and deaths, the boxers receive numerous strikes to the head during training and in matches, in training they will wear headguards too but the damage is still being done.
Strikes to young childrens heads isn't toughening them up, it's storing up trouble I'm afraid.

 

[Lynne]

Great job! He's a tenacious little fellow and appears to have lots of talent. He did awesome against someone who outweighed him, too.

 

[Pyrock]

On the point of head shots and why children shouldn't be doing them head guards or not. Brain damage is caused when the head is hit and the brain inside moves and hits the skull causing bleeding and bruising. The head guards only dampen the energy of the strike it doesn't stop the brain moving inside, to be truly effective the guard would have to be wrapped around the brain not the outside of the head. Children of a young age should not be subjected to head strikes, their skulls aren't fullly formed anyway and the brain cannot take repeated moving inside the skull, think of shaken baby syndrome.
It's one of the reasons boxing has so many brain injuries and deaths, the boxers receive numerous strikes to the head during training and in matches, in training they will wear headguards too but the damage is still being done.
Strikes to young childrens heads isn't toughening them up, it's storing up trouble I'm afraid.

I understand and appreciate everything you are saying, even the technical medical stuff ... as I am a scientist by training and profession. He has been in TKD sparring for over a year now and has yet to even get struck in the head in over 8 tournaments in which head kicks are allowed. He has, on one occasion, attended a WTF tourney in which head shots were not allowed but all other non-Olympic style TKD events allowed head kicks. Based on the rules and my experience, I am inclined to think head shots for 7-9 year olds poses no major risks. In fact, few kids even kick to the head at that age. Btw, hand strikes to the head during point sparring is allowed only with a backhand. Technically, it's considered "light contact". I would even go out on a limb and assume that head kicks and strikes are more dangerous for kids between the ages of 12-16 where they are better skilled to make head kicks and pack more energy because they are more developed (stronger)

 

[Pyrock]

Great job! He's a tenacious little fellow and appears to have lots of talent. He did awesome against someone who outweighed him, too.

Thanks! In fact, I think it is because of his tenacity (and natural abilities) that he is put up against bigger kids all the time. He seems to blow through kids his own size in all his sports (BJJ, TKD, and Wrestling) The cool thing is that he understands the idea that sparring and rolling with better and bigger kids makes HIM better.

 

[MA-Caver]

What I saw of the video was good learning on both the kids. Also liked the sportsmanship of the 7 yr. old after it was said and done as he made a gesture to pat his opponent on the arm as to say "good job" or "it was fun" or "good match" or whatever but it was a positive gesture after rolling around on the floor trying to get the best of their opponent.

They're kids, still lower belts and still learning. I for one applaud the use of head gear and gloves because accidents happen and kids DO need protection when learning a Martial Art, especially in an "uncontrolled" (by that I mean out of a class room setting -- ok it's still a learning situation) setting as a tourney.

Techniques will get more refined over time to be sure, particularly at that age. Care should be given to be sure that it's done properly, particularly at that age.

Thank you Pyrock and Tez for coming back and clarifying your previous statements.

Thanks to everyone for keeping it civil. :asian: