Video clip of tai chi ‘streetfight’

[ChenAn]

I would have to disagree with you there.

If the person who posted the video is to be believed, the old man IS a Taiji practitioner.

In the clip i can see ‘falling into emptiness’, deflection/redirection and even an effortless push that sent the man flying back. The soccer kick on the other hand was just the cherry on top, that has nothing to do with Taiji training.

Unless you can show me a better example of how a person with Taiji training would react in a real world altercation, I would stand by this video’s claim that it shows some real Taiji principles in action.

The video is very bad quality. It's hard to say really the age of the man. Speculation is open for different interpretations. "Falling in emptiness" is more due to "thugs" inability to keep balance while throwing a punch. Frankly his ability to keep balance in general in question.
Furthermore,
a) "the old man" disengages after opponent falls down, pauses, let his opponent get up, and continue following him again.
b) as mentioned before "the thug" ability to stand on own legs raises concerns on the first place.
c) "the thug friend just sits and watches as her accomplice is beaten up. Good friend a guess? Could have come behind "the old man" and settle the score.

Folks you don't need tai chi to beat up a poor kid aka "the thug". In fact, "the old man" really could have stopped the altercation in the very beginning.

zzj I'm not collecting videos of taiji practitioner caught on camera. I really have no idea how different taiji practitioners would react in real world. I also have no desire to convince anyone who has own opinion about this event - I simply expressed my own. Most people are clueless what taiji fight could possibly look like on the first place. This is because 99% of modern taiji practitioners do not fight unless of course they are (or was) cross-trained (like myself for example). Perhaps few lines may retain authentic combative training, but majority of others relies on different methods to compliment lack of fighting ability.

Remember that many legit taiji masters of recent past have never fought themselves on the first place, and simply represent a line of family transmission. Their combative technique proficiency usually demonstrated within their own student/practitioner circle and never beyond. Basically knowledge is there but practical usage is long gone. And it understandable who would fight when Mr Sam Colt made people equal long time ago?

Finally we can discuss a very long time subject of taiji fight and never come up to the agreement For example in Chen family jin "an" aka push is transmitted as "push downward". I wonder why? 99.9% taiji video demonstration one practitioner pushing another away. Will it ever stop aggressive opponent? Even this video shows that "leading to emptiness" didn't really stoped "the thug", not really until "soccer kick" turn him off ..So why people train it? What are they hope for? Questions, questions.....

 

[zzj]

It is true that the video is pretty bad quality. I am staisfied

The video is very bad quality. It's hard to say really the age of the man. Speculation is open for different interpretations. "Falling in emptiness" is more due to "thugs" inability to keep balance while throwing a punch. Frankly his ability to keep balance in general in question.
Furthermore,
a) "the old man" disengages after opponent falls down, pauses, let his opponent get up, and continue following him again.
b) as mentioned before "the thug" ability to stand on own legs raises concerns on the first place.
c) "the thug friend just sits and watches as her accomplice is beaten up. Good friend a guess? Could have come behind "the old man" and settle the score.

Folks you don't need tai chi to beat up a poor kid aka "the thug". In fact, "the old man" really could have stopped the altercation in the very beginning.

zzj I'm not collecting videos of taiji practitioner caught on camera. I really have no idea how different taiji practitioners would react in real world. I also have no desire to convince anyone who has own opinion about this event - I simply expressed my own. Most people are clueless what taiji fight could possibly look like on the first place. This is because 99% of modern taiji practitioners do not fight unless of course they are (or was) cross-trained (like myself for example). Perhaps few lines may retain authentic combative training, but majority of others relies on different methods to compliment lack of fighting ability.

Remember that many legit taiji masters of recent past have never fought themselves on the first place, and simply represent a line of family transmission. Their combative technique proficiency usually demonstrated within their own student/practitioner circle and never beyond. Basically knowledge is there but practical usage is long gone. And it understandable who would fight when Mr Sam Colt made people equal long time ago?

Finally we can discuss a very long time subject of taiji fight and never come up to the agreement For example in Chen family jin "an" aka push is transmitted as "push downward". I wonder why? 99.9% taiji video demonstration one practitioner pushing another away. Will it ever stop aggressive opponent? Even this video shows that "leading to emptiness" didn't really stoped "the thug", not really until "soccer kick" turn him off ..So why people train it? What are they hope for? Questions, questions.....

It is true that the video quality is bad, very bad, however, I am satisfied with my own interpretation of what happened.

1) I am assuming that it is true the 'old man' is a taiji practitioner, which means what we have witnessed is at the least, a taiji practitioner in some sort of a fight.

2) The 'thug' is obviously inept as a fighter, however, to repeatedly fall in the manner he did, he must have been comically clumsy to the point that he might trip over his own feet everyday. From the few videos of streetfights I have seen so far, I have never seen anyone so badly coordinated that he would tumble over repeatedly like the 'thug' here.

3) Another observation from watching clips of streetfights, the reaction of this 'old man' is unlike most others as in he does not flail around or try to engage with targeted punches like a striker/boxer; his footwork also controlled and coordinated. Although not neatly demonstrated, it would seem he prefers to receive, neutralize and redirect.

4) Several instances in the video suggests that the 'old man' was dispalying some aspect of taiji prowess, such as the wave like manner the push affect 'the thug' and caused him to be thrown back onto the ground; this point is the most subjective. (note: I do not believe the taiji, if any' shown here is Chen style. The push is much more consistent with Yang, and so are the more subtle redirections etc. Also, this is not so much a fight as an ill-tempered beat down by the 'old man', so he was probably not concerned about ending it)

I thought of going into a detailed analysis/speculation of what happened in the video but I won't, because I really have no desire to prove anything. As you have stated, no one really knows how taiji looks like in a real fight, but I think there are is enough circumstantial evidence in this clip to suggest this may be one such case.

I think we can agree to disagree here and leave others to decide for themselves what they have seen.

 

[Zeny]

ChenAn, what is your cross training history?

 

[ChenAn]

ChenAn, what is your cross training history?

Mostly external martial arts sambo, karate, long hu quan. Even though I was exposed to taji in my early years I have never seriously practiced it until in my 30th..