M
muayThaiPerson
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I might not be taking Judo and i have a choice of taking BJJ. What I want to know is the practicality of it on concrete. I know the effectiveness in NHB fights but they're on mats.
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Shinobi
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- Thread Starter
- #2
None. LOL just kidding.
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J-kid
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- Thread Starter
- #3
Depends really, I have a intresting point of veiw from where i sit.
I train with both BJJ and Judo , I love them both.
The Judo i do is far from tradional judo which makes it even better. I blend it with BJJ and wrestling etc to make my self a great grappler.
Diffrences i have seen Judo focus on throwing more then ground work where BJJ works more on Ground work and less on there wrestling take downs.
At my Judo Club we do alot of Ground work , And its the same way in BJJ.
But most judo clubs dont.
So when i get into compititions we destroy them on ground work, (and standing).
Really depends what you like more.
I would suggest going to Both of them trying them out and give a report back to us on how they both are.
Its really what you like best but i could always spair some of my advice.
I train with both BJJ and Judo , I love them both.
The Judo i do is far from tradional judo which makes it even better. I blend it with BJJ and wrestling etc to make my self a great grappler.
Diffrences i have seen Judo focus on throwing more then ground work where BJJ works more on Ground work and less on there wrestling take downs.
At my Judo Club we do alot of Ground work , And its the same way in BJJ.
But most judo clubs dont.
So when i get into compititions we destroy them on ground work, (and standing).
Really depends what you like more.
I would suggest going to Both of them trying them out and give a report back to us on how they both are.
Its really what you like best but i could always spair some of my advice.
OP
sammy3170
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- Thread Starter
- #4
You should never by choice go to the ground on the street. If u fall down learn how to fight your way back to your feet. I'm sorry but enticing someone into my guard is not high on my self defence priority list.
Cheers
Sammy
I wouldn't want to pull someone in my guard in the street either. But the guard is just one position. If you practice BJJ, its second nature while grappling to roll into the top position or a variation of the top position such as a side mount. The main thing on the ground is to be in control. The guard in the street is to dangerous because anybody can stomp you. But if you have no choice, use it and transition into a better position.
Thats what the matwork is all about, if your on the ground, you won't be holding on for life like you see in the cage. Your opponent is going to be moving and thats the key, he moves and creates openings for the sweeps and whatever else you prefer. Its also pretty natural for a BJJ fighter when grappling from their feet on the way to the ground, to be able to fall into the top position.
But really matters here is what is to my advantage. Get back to my feet? Or take the top position? Depends on who you are fighting. Theres somebody out there that can beat each of us. So if he's a better striker, you might be better off in a controlling top position and do some pounding.
But like its already beeen said, I too would rather take my chances on my feet!! But I would be at home on the ground too.
BY THE WAY. Judo won't be any better on the concrete. The advantage Judo does have is they use the throws way more than BJJ, but on the ground Judo has less submissions because Judo is a sport. I do see alot of BJJ guys that have Judo experience.
What matters is where you are in the arts.
Thats what the matwork is all about, if your on the ground, you won't be holding on for life like you see in the cage. Your opponent is going to be moving and thats the key, he moves and creates openings for the sweeps and whatever else you prefer. Its also pretty natural for a BJJ fighter when grappling from their feet on the way to the ground, to be able to fall into the top position.
But really matters here is what is to my advantage. Get back to my feet? Or take the top position? Depends on who you are fighting. Theres somebody out there that can beat each of us. So if he's a better striker, you might be better off in a controlling top position and do some pounding.
But like its already beeen said, I too would rather take my chances on my feet!! But I would be at home on the ground too.
BY THE WAY. Judo won't be any better on the concrete. The advantage Judo does have is they use the throws way more than BJJ, but on the ground Judo has less submissions because Judo is a sport. I do see alot of BJJ guys that have Judo experience.
What matters is where you are in the arts.
OP
A.R.K.
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #6
And consider it's practicality against multiple attackers...
As mentioned above, its good to know what to do on the ground if you find yourself there but it's preferable not to get their in most senerios. LEO taking someone down and getting them into a cuffing position would be an instance of practicality IF it is one on one. But can you ever 'really' count on it being one on one in a real world senerio?
It works well on the mat in competitions. And I give much regard to those that compete in this manner. But it is one on one, there are rules and there is a referee. Remove those factors....
Both are great starting points and offer much. Both can be useful in real life no doubt, but there are pros and cons.
Take care.
As mentioned above, its good to know what to do on the ground if you find yourself there but it's preferable not to get their in most senerios. LEO taking someone down and getting them into a cuffing position would be an instance of practicality IF it is one on one. But can you ever 'really' count on it being one on one in a real world senerio?
It works well on the mat in competitions. And I give much regard to those that compete in this manner. But it is one on one, there are rules and there is a referee. Remove those factors....
Both are great starting points and offer much. Both can be useful in real life no doubt, but there are pros and cons.
Take care.
OP
Infight
Guest
- Thread Starter
- #7
Well first of all, against multiple attackers as Judo as BJJ dont work, ok. BJJ is obvious, you need to concentrate the fight in one guy. In Judo, dont you think many guys will go one after one for you keep throwing them, theyll land many punchs and kicks on you, and some maybe can try to grab your take you down, and keep kicking you.
Now, considering, youre in a one-o-one fight, ill love to put my opponent in my guard, you know why, because i know what to do there, if you know how to work on guard, there is no better position to take, is safier than any other position. THere are many possibilities you can use on guard, if you dont know enough pratice more. In judo, they have many ground work, but dont train enough because its not too much used on champs, so they train basically naguewaza(throwing), ok, so what you put the guy down, hell stand up again to fight you, there is no meant to keeping the e down, if you dunno meant to go there.
So, cause this i rather praticing bjj than Judo
Now, considering, youre in a one-o-one fight, ill love to put my opponent in my guard, you know why, because i know what to do there, if you know how to work on guard, there is no better position to take, is safier than any other position. THere are many possibilities you can use on guard, if you dont know enough pratice more. In judo, they have many ground work, but dont train enough because its not too much used on champs, so they train basically naguewaza(throwing), ok, so what you put the guy down, hell stand up again to fight you, there is no meant to keeping the e down, if you dunno meant to go there.
So, cause this i rather praticing bjj than Judo
If I had to choose a BJJ school or a Judo school, I would choose the BJJ school.
Reasons.
Of course all arts have weknesses but BJJ does keepthem to a minimum. BJJ crosstrained with JKD makes a very good fighting system.
Judo has many limitations compared to BJJ. BJJ is a comprehensive ground system that teaches the way I like to train. To "use what is usefull and reject what is useless." This is reality. On the mat you will constantly refine your technique with little limitations.
Most arts can not say that truthfully. I take a lot of slack from guys in here that don't understand "using what is usefull and rejecting what is useless." They always say "all of my art is usefull." They don't get it!
The truth is all arts have room to refine. refining is a constant process of BJJ and thats what makes it the perfect blend for JKD!
Another reason for choosing BJJ is many of the higher ranked BJJ black belts are experienced Judo players. So the students will also get a lot of Judo experience too. Besides in Judo sport, they make mistakes that for a fight are not realistic, like running off the mat and giving up that back. The point system should be structured to be more realistic so that the transition to reality is a small transition.
Reasons.
Of course all arts have weknesses but BJJ does keepthem to a minimum. BJJ crosstrained with JKD makes a very good fighting system.
Judo has many limitations compared to BJJ. BJJ is a comprehensive ground system that teaches the way I like to train. To "use what is usefull and reject what is useless." This is reality. On the mat you will constantly refine your technique with little limitations.
Most arts can not say that truthfully. I take a lot of slack from guys in here that don't understand "using what is usefull and rejecting what is useless." They always say "all of my art is usefull." They don't get it!
The truth is all arts have room to refine. refining is a constant process of BJJ and thats what makes it the perfect blend for JKD!
Another reason for choosing BJJ is many of the higher ranked BJJ black belts are experienced Judo players. So the students will also get a lot of Judo experience too. Besides in Judo sport, they make mistakes that for a fight are not realistic, like running off the mat and giving up that back. The point system should be structured to be more realistic so that the transition to reality is a small transition.
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Infight
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- Thread Starter
- #9
All you said is true!
Thanx, buddy!
BJJ has it's share of daft things too.
Sliding toward each other on your bottom from the bell? Crazy!
Dragging your opponent into your guard? Crazy!
Welcoming a two handed backward reap because you end in guard? Crazy!
There are some banned moves in Competition Judo, and I do agree that BJJ is better on the ground because that is where they train the most, and because they have an advanced theory and training methods geared towards the ground. I would like to train BJJ one day, because their ground game is very good.
The BJJ transition to the ground is, in my opinion, poor. I prefer the Judo or Wrestling transition to the ground, because the scoring system favours a throw rather than a dragdown. In reality you don't throw your opponent only for him to get back up again. On real surfaces (i.e. not mats) they stay down. The real danger is in getting pulled down with your opponent, which is when groundwork becomes so important.
For transitioning from striking styles (which are the best for multiple opponent situations) traditional Judo, the loose upright kind, is better than modern Judo which treats grappling like the be all and end all of a fight, which it is in Judo competitions, but not on the street.
Most arts have specialties, BJJ has the ground, Judo has throwing, Boxing has punching. They are usually very good at that part, but the transitions into and out of their comfort area are poor. That's when you have to be aware of your art's limitiations.
Sometimes arts have hidden strengths. BJJ's emphasis of control of the arms and legs at the same time can only help when you start learning a striking art.
Most importantly BJJ is very good where it trains the most. The ground. As long as you concentrate on the parts which are more SD oriented when learning SD then it will be useful for some things in the real world.
Sliding toward each other on your bottom from the bell? Crazy!
Dragging your opponent into your guard? Crazy!
Welcoming a two handed backward reap because you end in guard? Crazy!
There are some banned moves in Competition Judo, and I do agree that BJJ is better on the ground because that is where they train the most, and because they have an advanced theory and training methods geared towards the ground. I would like to train BJJ one day, because their ground game is very good.
The BJJ transition to the ground is, in my opinion, poor. I prefer the Judo or Wrestling transition to the ground, because the scoring system favours a throw rather than a dragdown. In reality you don't throw your opponent only for him to get back up again. On real surfaces (i.e. not mats) they stay down. The real danger is in getting pulled down with your opponent, which is when groundwork becomes so important.
For transitioning from striking styles (which are the best for multiple opponent situations) traditional Judo, the loose upright kind, is better than modern Judo which treats grappling like the be all and end all of a fight, which it is in Judo competitions, but not on the street.
Most arts have specialties, BJJ has the ground, Judo has throwing, Boxing has punching. They are usually very good at that part, but the transitions into and out of their comfort area are poor. That's when you have to be aware of your art's limitiations.
Sometimes arts have hidden strengths. BJJ's emphasis of control of the arms and legs at the same time can only help when you start learning a striking art.
Most importantly BJJ is very good where it trains the most. The ground. As long as you concentrate on the parts which are more SD oriented when learning SD then it will be useful for some things in the real world.
None of that is taught in any BJJ school that I've ever heard of. What your actually talking about is "individual" fighters that have BJJ backgrounds and are competing in MMA events. Key words mixed martial arts. The events are not BJJ and the "individual" fighters are compensating for their weaknesses, trying only to fight in their preferred range. And I really don't think you will see a fighter use those tactics until his energy is being spent and he's decided that his opponents standup game is superior.
Pretty much everything else you stated I would agree accept the BJJ schools that do practice decent takedowns are the ones that are involved in mixed martial art events. The reason they appear weaker in takedowns than say Wrestler and Judo players is they don't see it as a priority. They are confident that they will end up on the ground anyway, so they work more on their ground game.
If you want to compare a couple of fighters. Gracie in Action2 (its a Gracie tape so it can be biased) features Royce and Royler Gracie competing in a Judo tournament. Royces opponent ran out of bounds to get a restart. Royce literally grabbed him by the back of his gi top and dragged him back to the center of the ring.
Royce and Royler both won in the Judo players "domain".
But I think you beleive as I, that all arts have weaknesses and there is room for improvement.
