US Catholic Bishops Forbid Reiki

Discussion in 'Traditional Healing Arts' started by Bill Mattocks, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    NOTE: Just passing this along as FYI for other practicing Catholics like myself. Not sure I agree with it, but there it is.

    http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2009/09-067.shtml

    http://www.usccb.org/dpp/Evaluation_Guidelines_finaltext_2009-03.pdf
     
  2. Nolerama

    Nolerama Master Black Belt

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    I can understand why they wouldn't want to promote Reiki, but I can also note the hypocrisy in the article, frequently citing Reiki as having no base in natural science, but then turning right around and implying that if Reiki's alleged powers aren't from natural science, it must have spiritual properties (that don't comply with the Church).

    That's pretty funny. It's like damning anything that gives anyone some sort of spiritual salvation. I get a lot of spirituality in physical activity. Should MAs, running, cycling, etc also be banned from the Church? Yes, there's a basis in natural science for physical activity (i.e. endorphin/adrenaline rush) but there's also a spiritual one...

    Just thought about this: I'm interpreting this article as the Catholic Church saying something like "Don't believe in Aliens, because the last time they visited, they took away some of our parishoners."

    I mean, come on. Churches everywhere: The People are more educated and literate than ever. We don't need dictation in our daily lives.

    Besides.... If Mr. Miyagi could heal Daniel-san with Reiki, then it HAS to be real.
     
  3. Bob Hubbard

    Bob Hubbard Retired

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    Religion is for controlling people with rigid dogma and FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt).

    I'll stick with faith.
     
  4. arnisador

    arnisador Sr. Grandmaster

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    I see the hypocrisy (and the control) too. The complaint is that Reiki rejects science in a different way than their religion rejects science. Sheesh!
     
  5. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well, yes. Not to say that I do not see the hypocrisy you do, but try to remember, the Catholic Church holds itself out as the True Church. That means that Catholic spiritual belief is real; others are not. They are saying what should be patently clear - they don't accept spiritual solutions to problems that are not Catholic spiritual solutions. I wouldn't expect any organization that claimed spiritual truth to recognize or accept the spiritual truth of a different faith.

    The Catholic Church is not the Unitarians. They don't believe "I'm OK, you're OK." While they try to reach understanding and reconciliation with other faiths and Christian denominations, they also believe that those of other other beliefs are, well, wrong.

    Speaking for myself, I do see the hypocrisy you do. Speaking as a Catholic, I understand and appreciate that my Church has a set of codes that make it clear what is right and what is wrong. I myself did not know much about Reiki. I thought it was just a form of ki flow manipulation and did not realize it had a spiritual element to it.
     
  6. Makalakumu

    Makalakumu Gonzo Karate Apocalypse

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    :lol:
     
  7. Empty Hands

    Empty Hands Senior Master

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    This from the same set of jokers who just told us that condoms don't protect you from AIDS, and in fact make it worse. I wouldn't trust them to tell me that water was wet or the sky was blue if I thought if had a bearing on their dogma.

    After all that, I basically agree that reiki has no scientific backing, and has no place being offered in evidence based medicine.
     
  8. Thesemindz

    Thesemindz Senior Master

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    Yah, the aids and condoms things was kinda sad.

    But that aside, I don't see why they would have a problem with Reiki except because they want to have a complete monopoly on everything. If they could have a monopoloy on science, they would, and in fact, they did for hundreds of years.

    I don't know if Reiki works or not. I'd like to be shown evidence of it. If it does work, I wish we could spread it's teachings. Why wouldn't we want more healing in the world? But all that aside, this is just more sad narrow minded monopolism on the part of the catholic organization.

    Imagine what the world would be like if the news story read, "Catholic Church embraces Reiki healing in order to bring health and happiness to people all over the world."

    I bet that would put butts in the seats.


    -Rob
     
  9. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well, sure.

    But that is kind of against the point, isn't it? The Catholic Church isn't Wal-Mart, willing to sell you whatever you want to buy. They represent what they say is the only truth - take it or leave it. They're really not all that interested in making converts by ameliorating their stance on various issues.
     
  10. Thesemindz

    Thesemindz Senior Master

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    I understand that. But I'm also a practicing christian who doesn't have any problem with Reiki healing, although like I said I'm not yet convinced it actually works.

    Does the catholic church teach that all blessings come from God? If they do, then denying a healing force because they don't understand it would seem to imply that it is not a positive thing.

    I don't think Reiki healing has to be contrary to Catholic beliefs. I think they are choosing to be contrary to it.


    -Rob
     
  11. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    The Catholic Church teaches that either something is based on a scientific principle, which can be demonstrated, or it is spiritual, meaning it comes from God. If it is supernatural and does not come from God (the Catholic concept of God), then it is satanic. All non-Christian supernatural healing is seen that way. Either it is a miracle of God, or it is evil.

    I think the only way the Catholic Church could NOT be contrary to Catholic dogma is if Reiki stated that the 'force' they claim to manipulate was heaven-sent in answer to Christian prayer. If it is instead like 'The Force', it isn't from God - it's about the only way they CAN see it.
     
  12. Thesemindz

    Thesemindz Senior Master

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    Well Bill, I don't want to get into insulting your religion. I respect that you have a belief system and whether or not you agree with the church, you are defending their right to their position.

    I don't agree with their position. If it exists, than just because we can't explain it scientifically now doesn't mean we will never be able to, or that our lack of understanding invalidates the practice. By that logic, horseless carriages and indoor plumbing would have been the work of the devil at one point as well.

    But like I said, I don't want this to come off as a Catholic bashing thing. I respect you, and I respect that you have beliefs as part of a larger organization. Just because I don't share your beliefs doesn't mean I don't respect your right to them.


    -Rob
     
  13. Ninjamom

    Ninjamom 2nd Black Belt

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    Are you guys reading the same article that I am? I didn't see anywhere in the article where the Catholic church either forbade Reiki or called it demonic. They did say that it had no basis in science (which is true) and that it had no basis in the Catholic faith (which is also true). The Bishops said that it is of dubious value (again, true) and that therefore it is not something appropriate for churches to support. I took this as guidance as to whether or not a Reiki class would be a 'good thing' for a local Parish to offer for the community, and I took the answer as 'No", and nothing more than that.

    I am not a practicing Roman Catholic. I do not personally agree with many of the things the Catholic Church teaches. However, I don't see a single thing hypocritical about the Bishops' stand at all. If Reiki is of dubious value and not supported by faith or science, then why should they support it? In fact, if it turned out that Reiki was contrary to science and/or contrary to good faith, then I would say they would have a responsibility to oppose it actively (although I didn't read anything in the article to suggest they were going that far).

    Personally I think some folks read bigotry and hypocrisy into the article because these things fit in with their preconceived stereotypes of religion in general and the Catholic Church in particular.
     
  14. CoryKS

    CoryKS Senior Master

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    Hmm... if only there was a word to describe Christians who believe that the final word on religious topics doesn't come from the Church.
     
  15. Thesemindz

    Thesemindz Senior Master

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    I wasn't reffering specifically to the article during the back and forth between Bill and I, rather I was responding to his statements.

    I would agree that if Reiki is of dubious nature and quality then those who feel a responsiblity for the guidance of others should at least be cautious of it, if not generally opposed. I'm just seperating opposition based on informed caution versus opposition based on dogma.


    -Rob
     
  16. Thesemindz

    Thesemindz Senior Master

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    There are many words for those of us who feel that way.

    I still tend to call myself a Christian, because regardless of the meaning of the word to others, I know what it means to me.


    -Rob
     
  17. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    If I gave that impression, I apologize. The Catholic Church didn't say those two things, I did. However, with justification. The question of Reiki came up because pastors were being asked about it by parishioners and did not know what to answer, or they did not have an authority on which to hang their answer. So now they do - thus, 'forbade'. Second, the Church has long held that either something is based on science, or it is from God. If it is supernatural and NOT from God, then it is by definition, Satanic or demonic. The Church's position has always been that there are no 'good' or even 'neutral' powers that do not come from God. If supernatural power exists that God did not create, it is evil. Whenever supernatural or 'magic' powers are shown in the Bible, either God gave them, or they were demonic.
     
  18. CoryKS

    CoryKS Senior Master

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    I was thinking of one word in particular.

    The point is: if you're not a practicing Catholic, why care about what the Catholic Church says about Reiki, condoms or whatever? It's like freaking out because Islam forbids eating bacon. I'm not a Muslim, so it has no bearing on my life. Bill said right at the top of the OP that he was posting it as an FYI to "other practicing Catholics".
     
  19. JadecloudAlchemist

    JadecloudAlchemist Master of Arts

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    Mikao Usui was a lay Tendai priest. Some say his Jumon(magic spells) are Shinto and Tendai in orgin. I guess his In or Ingei(Hand murdra)comes from Tendai sect or a Shinto maybe even a mixture of the two.

    So I can understand another religion. The Kanji Rei 霊 is read as ghost however it can be read as spirit. 靈 The Hanzi(Chinese)Ling I think is read as Supernatural/spirit and differs from ghost which is read 鬼 Gui.

    I don't know if Reiki practicers channels spirits thru them to act in their healing.
     
  20. shesulsa

    shesulsa Columbia Martial Arts Academy

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    Reiki has also been argued as a re-invention or remoderned seichim-sekhem (Egyptian) which was supposedly used by Jesus to perform His miracles, as it is supposed to channel the Holy Spirit itself.

    You know, part of the Holy Trinity. ;)123
     

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