Up close and personal

[Finlay]

Hello,

There are lots of styles that proclaim to be close in striking styles. However, a trawl of YouTube turned up with a lot of the 'close in' styles turning to long range striking when they spar.

I would say that boxing and Maui Thai are the best I have seen so far.

It is possible that I have just seen bad examples of different systems.



So...

Are there good examples of traditional MA close in fighting that is not purely grappling. Grabbing and hitting maybe but not just wrestling.

Do these styles have rules to keep the opponents close?'

 

[jobo]

Hello,

There are lots of styles that proclaim to be close in striking styles. However, a trawl of YouTube turned up with a lot of the 'close in' styles turning to long range striking when they spar.

I would say that boxing and Maui Thai are the best I have seen so far.

It is possible that I have just seen bad examples of different systems.



So...

Are there good examples of traditional MA close in fighting that is not purely grappling. Grabbing and hitting maybe but not just wrestling.

Do these styles have rules to keep the opponents close?'

..? Theres an optimal range for each strike, it's also wise 8n a lit of instances to keep your opponent at a distance, close in for striking cuts your options for both attack and defence considerably, its therefore not really a position you will choose if you have a option. And really where someone has got a hold of you and is tieing you up

But if that's the way it goes then elbows and knees and foreheads are where it's at, plus upper cuts and round punches to the kidneys . They cant see them coming, but neither can you if they reply in kind.

You really cant do any of those in friendly sparing as people tend to get hurt if you stick the nut on them

 

[Headhunter]

I wouldn't use boxing becayse as soon as a boxer gets close and clinch they're seperated and sent to long range.

Muay Thai yes is an example.

Also I'd say kenpo is to. As I was taught that most of the techniques should be able to be used in a phone box

 

[drop bear]

The lack of face punching or headgear helps.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Are there good examples of traditional MA close in fighting that is not purely grappling. Grabbing and hitting maybe but not just wrestling.

What you have said violate the natural of MA.

When the distance is

- far, you can kick and punch.
- close, you can lock and throw.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

I don't think you really want to be up close with someone. I imagine any that place a emphasis on punching will naturally be closer than ones that place a emphasis on kicking, or at least high kicks.

Reasoning for first is mainly down to if you get bogged down in grappling someone and end up on the floor, there are many bad things that can come from that. Obviously situation pending, but i can see staying out of grappling range or quickly getting out of it as a objectively better decision.


Edit: i dont know if Sambo can be counted as traditionally but the combat version of that (which has strikes) might be quite close. Its pretty much kickboxing ontop of the grappling though, so it might break out into distance until someone runs in to take someone down. (i imagine if somone added kickboxing to judo a similar thing might happen)

And obviously the nature of fighting has you go through various ranges naturally anyway. At least if you aren't restricted to only knowing how to fight in one so opt to stick to that one.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Most of kempo is focusing on either transitioning between ranges, or close in fighting. Not sure if tourney fighting is different for kempo (most tourneys that ive seen dont have rules that support that style, from a logistical sense).

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Grabbing and hitting maybe but not just wrestling.

Do these styles have rules to keep the opponents close?'

If you can get your opponent into a head lock like this, your opponent's punch won't be effective in that range. The key point is to be able to control your opponent's leading arm.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Hello,

There are lots of styles that proclaim to be close in striking styles. However, a trawl of YouTube turned up with a lot of the 'close in' styles turning to long range striking when they spar.

I think a lot of that has to do with personal preference. People have different strengths and weaknesses, based on ability, flexibility, body type, muscular strength and even their attitude. I think the style they practice may have something do with their chosen fighting distance, but not everything. I like to get inside on big dudes in general, but people smaller than me, I'll do my best to stick and move.

 

[dvcochran]

Judo it the first thing that comes to mind.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I think a lot of that has to do with personal preference. People have different strengths and weaknesses, based on ability, flexibility, body type, muscular strength and even their attitude. I think the style they practice may have something do with their chosen fighting distance, but not everything. I like to get inside on big dudes in general, but people smaller than me, I'll do my best to stick and .

I agree with all of this regarding fighting. Re: style - Filipino systems are very close in. Am. Kenpo, as headhunter said, is good close in as well.

Isshinryu's Sunsu kata is full of close in stuff: Aside from an elbow combo series, there is one composed of a low palm heel strike-grabbing belt-pulling in to high palm heel-knee strike-pull in to punch. The opponent in Naihanchi is within 2 feet of you the entire kata and features sweeps, kick checks, elbows, stomps, and grabs. It was only after my san-dan (and started to understand oyu) that I realized my style (and other Okinawan styles) are well suited for close in work. It's like a whole different style than I first learned over 40 years ago. Amazing how perspective and continual learning can alter your perception.

A lot of untrained fighters (and people in general) are uncomfortable when their personal space is taken. By knowing how to fight in close, you gain an advantage. Applying elbows, knees, leg checks, etc., is something most people don't think off doing (as opposed to firing off just punches) unless they have trained for this. So, my main strategy would be to get inside a challenging opponent. For a lesser one, or a really big and heavy one, I'd stay on the outside. The former might get a lucky eye poke in, and the latter might fall on me.

 

[marques]

What you have said violate the natural of MA.

When the distance is

- far, you can kick and punch.
- close, you can lock and throw.

- or you jump to a double leg
- or elbow and knee while the opponent tries grappling.

Anything is possible; and anything is natural for some.

 

[marques]

..? Theres an optimal range for each strike, it's also wise 8n a lit of instances to keep your opponent at a distance, close in for striking cuts your options for both attack and defence considerably, its therefore not really a position you will choose if you have a option.

I would disagree. I have much more striking tools at short distance. What I loose in power I gain in control over the opponent. Power is only needed for the last couple of strikes, defence needed at any moment.

It only does not work for me when the opponent is a good grappler, or good at keeping away, but many strikers just feel uncomfortable. It is where I like to be, close distance.

(At some point, I could even high kick - to the head - from the clinch...).

 

[jobo]

I would disagree. I have much more striking tools at short distance. What I loose in power I gain in control over the opponent. Power is only needed for the last couple of strikes, defence needed at any moment.

It only does not work for me when the opponent is a good grappler, or good at keeping away, but many strikers just feel uncomfortable. It is where I like to be, close distance.

(At some point, I could even high kick - to the head - from the clinch...).

well no you don't, a simple count up on my fingers reveals that at range you have two feet and two hands and multiple variations of each. so lets say 5 each and call it 20, which is on the lowside, close in you have two knees and two elbows and a head to work with so 5, really, kicks and punches you can get of at grappling range are so ineffective as not to count to the tally

 

[marques]

well no you don't, a simple count up on my fingers reveals that at range you have two feet and two hands and multiple variations of each. so lets say 5 each and call it 20, which is on the lowside, close in you have two knees and two elbows and a head to work with so 5, really, kicks and punches you can get of at grappling range are so ineffective as not to count to the tally

Well, you could count variations of elbows and knees. Punches and kicks may be not much effective, but as long as I am in control I can decide when to pull and finish. It’s a subjective matter. I really enjoy defending and striking in close distance (not body to body).

 

[marques]

.

 

[jobo]

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Well, you could count variations of elbows and knees. Punches and kicks may be not much effective, but as long as I am in control I can decide when to pull and finish. It’s a subjective matter. I really enjoy defending and striking in close distance (not body to body).

how many variation of kneeing some one are there ? the knees only goes in one plain, so that's up and down ! have to got magic kneees ?

 

[jobo]

Well, you could count variations of elbows and knees. Punches and kicks may be not much effective, but as long as I am in control I can decide when to pull and finish. It’s a subjective matter. I really enjoy defending and striking in close distance (not body to body).

yes as long as you are incontrol then everything is fine, but what if he head butts you or bites your ear off, or hits you with elbows and knees, suddenly your not in control any more. its a risky place to be, particularly if your at a physical disadvantage to start off with and people with a physical advantage like to get in close as thats where they can use it best.

Really if that's where you find yourself by design or bad luck, launching an all out assault with whatever weapons you can muster is the best strategy, hit them as hard and as often as you can, before they can do the same to you, don't mess about trying to ' control them' or you may lose an ear

 

[geezer]

yes as long as you are incontrol then everything is fine, but what if he head butts you or bites your ear off, or hits you with elbows and knees, suddenly your not in control any more. its a risky place to be, particularly if your at a physical disadvantage to start off with and people with a physical advantage like to get in close as thats where they can use it best

It's not just about raw physical advantage. It's also about where you train to fight, and where you are "at home" and where you are effective.

I used to be really fond of working close and using my elbows and knees. Wing Chun has some interesting and unexpected ways of using both of these. I could often overwhelm my taller kung-fu brothers in sparring if I could get inside their punches. If they grappled me, that was cool too since I had some rudimentary grappling skills and could beat them at that game too. Now this was back in the late 80s and early 90s before I went on a 15 year "hiatus" from the martial arts.

Years later, I came back to training and found that the world had changed. I played with some real grapplers and found that ...actually ...elbow-range puts you right where they want you. Now I would not be so reckless about closing. But if grappling is not part of the rule-set, I'd still want to work inside. A lot of 'chunners fail not because there is a total lack of potential in the system, but rather from a failure to control their distance and position. That, and a failure to train realistically.

 

[jobo]

It's not just about raw physical advantage. It's also about where you train to fight, and where you are "at home" and where you are effective.

I used to be really fond of working close and using my elbows and knees. Wing Chun has some interesting and unexpected ways of using both of these. I could often overwhelm my taller kung-fu brothers in sparring if I could get inside their punches. If they grappled me, that was cool too since I had some rudimentary grappling skills and could beat them at that game too. Now this was back in the late 80s and early 90s before I went on a 15 year "hiatus" from the martial arts.

Years later, I came back to training and found that the world had changed. I played with some real grapplers and found that ...actually ...elbow-range puts you right where they want you. Now I would not be so reckless about closing. But if grappling is not part of the rule-set, I'd still want to work inside. A lot of 'chunners fail not because there is a total lack of potential in the system, but rather from a failure to control their distance and position. That, and a failure to train realistically.

NO its not just about physicality, but its a definite factor I '' spar'' with a lad, at class, he is my height and slighter build, but 30 years younger. i say spar, it turns into a fight every time, he is much to fast for me and he hits very hard, the contests lasts until the point i get hold of him, once he is in close his speed and punching power are gone and i use my strength to throw him about like a rag doll

similarly if i was against some 300 lb bouncer, id be damned if i was getting in close so he could do the same to me