United States Tae Kwon Do Committee?

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by Kwan Jang, Mar 10, 2009.

  1. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    The OP was asking about the USTC and if anyone was involved in it first hand which I am. You decided to throw in your $.02 about the organization that you don't know anything about, outside what you may have read on a webpage. It was never a contest to win. Nor am I trying to recruit people into joining. I am merely trying to point out that your accusations are based on opinoins not facts.

    KW, if you have any specific questions about the USTC please feel free to ask. If I don't know the answer then I will contact someone who does.
     
  2. Brad Dunne

    Brad Dunne Brown Belt

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    The OP was asking about the USTC and if anyone was involved in it first hand which I am. You decided to throw in your $.02 about the organization that you don't know anything about, outside what you may have read on a webpage.

    You are correct, it's my opinion and it's based upon your given information about the "old guard" creating another organization and what's more, I'm intitled to offer it on an open forum. But just what is first hand knowledge? Have you been privy to their books? Are you sitting in behind closed doors with the operating staff making decisions? Are you any way involved in any policy making actions? If the answer is no, then in reality all you have is what somebody is telling you and from that you base your opinion on the organization. The TKDW which I referenced was also put together from another facet of the "old guard" and no they don't align themselves with the Kukkiwon. But, their platform was the same, to focus on the "art" side of TKD and no I'm not a member. The Kukkiwon is not the end all be all of TKD, but some folks like to wave the flag pertaining to them. Why didn't this "old guard" seek to become an adjunct of the current National governing body for TKD here in the states? Would'nt that have been a stronger more overall positive position to be in? Regardless of what name or initials are used, why attempt a second try at something, that was reported as a dismal failure? Why not just keep the Hanmadang in Korea, where it's been held from it's beginning? You have your viewpoint and interests and your more than welcome to them. I offered an opinion and you took exception to it and hence the debate.
     
  3. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    Yes...freedom of speech is a glorious thing and you are entitled to it. All I asked was that you backed up your statements with facts. Why is that so hard to do?

    Not sure if I'm privy to the books, simply because I never asked. Yes, I have been with the operating staff met with them in Chicago and took a trip with them to Korea. Yes I do have a voice in policy making decsions..now whether or not it makes a difference that is a whole other topic. Even if the answer was no, my opinoin would be based on information directly from the staff people including Pres. Lee, not from somebody who heard it from somebody. I have direct contact with several people on the board which is why I told KJ that if I didn't have the answer to his question I could find out directly from the horse's mouth instead of guessing based on my intrepetation of what may have been in the past.

    Similar platform but different goals and execution process. USTC works with KKW who, if you are doing they're type of TKD is the bottomline decision maker for their TKD system.

    They did try to work with USAT. USAT for their own reasons did not want to work with them. You will have to ask them for the reason, I can only speculate based on what I haver heard through the grapevine.

    Wow...is this a personal philosophy? If you fail miserably, never try again? First of all it was the World Hanmadang that they attempted to host for the first time outside of Korea. They actually help change a policy about the Hanmadang where it is being opened to be hosted in different areas of the world every other year. This year it will be in Korea this year and then Rome next year and then back to Korea. What USTC is doing is hosting a US National Hanmadang working closely with KKW on the project. So it may fail again, but that doesn't mean they won't stop trying.
     
  4. Brad Dunne

    Brad Dunne Brown Belt

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    "Why they asked me to be a task member is beyond me. I have no vested interest"

    "Not sure if I'm privy to the books, simply because I never asked. Yes, I have been with the operating staff met with them in Chicago and took a trip with them to Korea. Yes I do have a voice in policy making decsions"

    But you have no vested interest!!.....................

    "All I asked was that you backed up your statements with facts. Why is that so hard to do?"

    Just what facts do you feel I should be able to obtain? I have no access to the books, the staff or policies, so in reality I have No Vested Interest......
    My opinion comes from the history of TKD here in the U.S. and watching the political turmoil surrounding it. The "old guard" you so cheerfully acknowledged in your opening post were from the established national body at one time and were replaced, for whatever reason, as were those within the TKDW. They found a new tangent of TKD to hook into and are attempting to bring it to the U.S., why? It had a home in Korea for what, the past 17 years. I don't see any other group of Korean GM's from another country offering to do the same, so why the big push for it here? Since you referenced that it will be a revolving (country to country) offering, will other countries have their version of the USTC or will the USTC be the floating governing body in control?
     
  5. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    To me a vested interest means I have something to gain from their success. I don't have anything to gain. I am helping out simply for the sake of helping people in TKD. Since I believe in the message and the man delivering it, I am taking my time and effort and supporting this organization. If they succeed in their goals, then I guess my gain is warm fuzzy feeling that I helped out.

    So no facts just opinoins like you stated. So saying that they are doing it simply for monetary gains is your opinoin. And this opinion has in no way any bearing on the original question asked by KJ. It is just some random opinoin about a group that you do not even know nor, from what I have read, have tried to even get to know. You are deriving this from the past, not present. Do you often take this route when forming opinoins?

    I believe KKW was experimenting with the idea of holding the Hanmadang in different countries for some time. The US was the first. Other countries will have a NGB for this, now whether it is the same NGB that governs sparring, I don't know.
     
  6. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    They're an org. Maybe they offer something that some people want that another doesn't. Maybe not. I looked over the website:

    http://www.ustaekwondocommittee.com/mc/page.do

    Membership bennies copied from the above site's membership section:

    Individual member bennies
    *Current Taekwondo information in line with Kukkiwon standards and philosophy
    *Seminars
    *Competitions
    *Online learning
    *Certification programs
    *Monthly Newsletter
    *Awards and Recognition​

    The USTC is committed to enriching each of it members Taekwondo experience through its membership programs.​

    Basic Individual Membership Benefits include:​

    *USTC Basic membership card
    *Monthly Newsletter
    *Ability to compete in USTC Competitions
    *Ability to attend USTC seminars and camps
    *Access to Members only section of USTC Website​

    Club bennies
    Receive an appropriate recognition certificate.
    *Monthly Newsletter
    *Access to Members only section of the USTC Website
    *Listing on USTC Website directory, with link and photo of school/club.
    *The continued eligibility of each USTC Club member is conditioned upon continued registration as a Club member and continued compliance with the Articles of Incorporation and Bylaws of the United States Taekwondo Committee.

    Appears to be a USAT like body for those who don't feel represented in USAT. Could fill a need? Maybe not. If the bennies are worth the membership dues and if there aren't any corruption issues, then like any other org, it may be beneficial.

    Is there a need for another org? Of course not. Could it fill an existing need better than an existing org? Maybe. Does is fill a niche that the other orgs don't? Maybe.

    Daniel
     
  7. Brad Dunne

    Brad Dunne Brown Belt

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    "To me a vested interest means I have something to gain from their success. I don't have anything to gain"..............

    If you say so, after all, all we really have is your opinion on this aspect of the subject.

    "So no facts just opinoins like you stated. So saying that they are doing it simply for monetary gains is your opinoin. And this opinion has in no way any bearing on the original question asked by KJ. It is just some random opinoin about a group that you do not even know nor, from what I have read, have tried to even get to know. You are deriving this from the past, not present."

    See, you do understand!........Since there is only the past for me to garner any applicable knowledge from, then my opinion is thusly based. It's what others of the same intent have done that allows for review and opinion objectivity. But we plainly see that this is another pay to join organization and since I am not privy to the books, the policy's or even their conversations, just how in the world could anything other than an opinion be forthcoming? But you on the other hand, go to Korea, are involved in policy, are privy to the inner workings and have access to the books "if you ask", but have nothing to gain, even though there are things to be gained from a normal membership that folks "pay" for.

    "Do you often take this route when forming opinoins?"

    And how may I ask, do you go about forming opinions on matters? Do a CIA investigation or just look at information available and what has transpired previously with similar agendas and then draw your own opinion on the subject.

    I tried to let this go before, but you just felt duty bound to repeat the position that it was an opinion (which I readily concured with) and not based on facts (which I could not be privy too) and was not germane to the thread in any way. It became germane when you referenced the "old guard", because they were part of an organization that came under review and people were removed/replaced/voted out - whatever!

    You are on the ground floor, so to speak, of a new organization and more power to you. It's understandable that your loyality is going to be in that direction. But in the same vein, my perspective is not clouded by personal association, but rather based upon, as said prior, known history and offered text, which is more than enough to base an opinion on.
     
  8. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    True, but unlike yours, mine is based more in factual knowledge as opposed to hearsay of the past.

    How can it be objective when you have done no research whatsoever on what is happening now. That's like saying it's ok to smoke because in the past doctors used to promote cigarettes. There has been changes that can be explored and questions answered. All you need to do is contact the source of information.

    How many attempts have you made in getting any information from the source in order justify a factual opinion? Oh..for the record, I volunteered to pay for a membership way after the fact I was asked to help out. At no time prior, during or after my initial involvement was I asked to become a member. I was asked to help with what they were doing. I decided to become a member afterwards.

    I do both. I develope my opinoin based actions that have transpired. I solidify them on more fact search if I feel it is neccessary or if I'm going to express opinoins publicly.
     
  9. Brad Dunne

    Brad Dunne Brown Belt

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    Ah!...Perhaps if I had family ties that were of Korean decent, I to would be more prone to understanding and being accepted. As I said before, more power to you and hopefully this organization will be of great value to the TKD world.

    Peace.........:asian:
     
  10. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    Well, since we have a committee member posting on this thread, I'll ask some questions that may have crossed the minds of others as well.

    1. What aside from a cool patch and some networking are the big bennies to me joining, either individually or as a club that I cannot get simply being a Kukkiwon member?

    2. Do you offer gradings, as USAT does, and if so, are you a gateway to the Kukkiwon or do you have your own dan certs independent of the Kukkiwon? And if so, does the Kukkiwon recognize them?

    3. In your competitions, do you have a sparring style that is different from that of the WTF? If so, what are the practical changes (i.e. greater allowance of hand techniques, sweeps and takedowns, different point values, etc.)

    Thanks,

    Daniel
     
  11. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

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    Daniel lets add one more why would anybody need to be with them if they can get a KKW certificate?

    What is it you are really trying to do the sport is really taken up by USAT and AAU, how can you get anybody to the Olympics even AAU cannot, you must be USAT?
     
  12. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    Terry,

    From what I can see, the Olympic/Sport isn't their focus, so they really wouldn't compete with USAT or AAU. My big question is, what do they do?

    There's mention of competitions. Fine, but of what sort?

    Also, there's a big Kukkiwon logo on the front page, which is why I asked,

    "What aside from a cool patch and some networking are the big bennies to me joining, either individually or as a club that I cannot get simply being a Kukkiwon member?"

    I already have a channel to the Kukkiwon through my dojang. Why do I need another?

    An org that promotes a more traditional sparring style that is link to the Kukkiwon? That would interest me. Grading that is independent of the Kukkiwon? That could be a benefit too.

    Daniel
     
  13. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

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    Daniel I would have to dis-agree all the upper people running that org. came from the old USTU org. and that is what they know and do. I believe they are just there trying to line there pockets like they did back in the day of old. I know I will get flack from some but the have no real goals in mind for anyone to join. I would love to see a more SD approach to TKD and have been working hard with some for a long time but everytime they come close to making it work the money and who is in charge stos it. I believe there is a burdan on the committee of this org. to really answer and explain what is there sole purpose beside making money? How can they help, when they destroyed everything once before? I will just listen and wait for some answer that do not dance around questions.
     
  14. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    I'm not sure where we disagree; I have no illusion about them being particularly altruistic; they just don't appear to be going the Olympic rout. There are plenty of ways to line an organization's pockets without the olympics.

    I stuck with asking about what they actually do because I'm trying not to judge the motivations of those involved. I figure that I'm not looking to join another org, so I'll discuss it as academically as possible. That and others have already addressed the money issue.

    Personally, I view organizations in a neutral light. Do they provide a service that I can use and is the cost of that service equivocol to the service rendered? If I can't use or don't need the service, then the org, any org, is worthless to me. If I can use the service but their service isn't worth the dues, then again, they're worthless to me.

    Membership in an org is strictly a business arrangement between the organization's board and the constituent members. Nothing more. The good of Taekwondo is truly pursued and promoted only if it is beneficial to the growth and longevity of the organization.

    The fact that the members apparently have baggage from a previous org or orgs is not a plus, but as I'm not a member, I have no need to question their motives.

    Daniel
     
  15. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

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    I can see your point here Daniel, I just do not trust orgs. that there committee has a negitive past in regards to money and politics. I would love to hear more but from the point of views and event we are the only one playing rigth now.
     
  16. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    Can't blame you there. There seems to be so much drama surrounding the Kukkiwon that grafting another organization onto it, be it USAT, USTC, or whoever, just seems like more bother than worth.

    I joined USAT because our club is USAT and I figured that as a member, I'd be contributing to whatever minimum number of students is needed to qualify for the insurrance.

    But for me to join another org, it would have to be a clean slate with no Kukkiwon. Nothing against the Kukkiwon, but they already offer pretty much everything I'd need without the addition of an affilated org. A new org would need to be self contained to interest me.

    Daniel
     
  17. terryl965

    terryl965 <center><font size="2"><B>Martial Talk Ultimate<BR

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    I agree Daniel, I am YSAT because of my oldest son dream of the Olympics one day, other than that I am AAU because we can get better competition at the National level for all the players. I believe an entrnal org. would be the only way of making me join something again.
     
  18. Daniel Sullivan

    Daniel Sullivan Grandmaster

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    When the kids have dreams, you've gotta feed them. Sometimes that means USAT. No shame in that.:)

    Well, I am off to class, so I will catch up to you here over the weekend, Terry.

    Daniel
     
  19. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    Wait they have patches? Those buggers never gave me one!!

    I am going to submit your question directly to Mst. Harris for a more precise answer. Since I don't have a TKD school I don't know what advantadges you would have as a club. Individually speaking you would have a more direct contact to people who are more intuned with KKW than that of the USAT because Pres. Lee has more connections with them.

    The USTC would be a gateway to KKW. You certs would KKW. They do not offer independent dan certs that I'm aware of.



    Thanks,

    Daniel[/quote]
    The competitions that USTC sanctions are poosae not kyoguri. This is why they were trying to work in conjunction with USAT. That way USAT would handle all fighting and USTC would focus on poomsae & breaking competitions.
     
  20. miguksaram

    miguksaram Master of Arts

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    Simple....Being an NGB for olympics is not the goal of USTC. They are not focused on trying to push the olympic dream. You know as well as I do that a very minoot amount of people will ever be a TKD Olympian (unless your last name is Lopez..then you are automatically sent to the front of the line. ;) j/k). USTC is trying to make TKD more accessible to people by showing that TKD is not just about olympic sparring. TKD has more faucets that other people not looking to get banged up can enjoy.123
     

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