Unarmed Florida Teen Shot

[ballen0351]

criminally negligent police department

I never knew you were an expert Homicide investigator. Maybe you should give your expert opinion to the Sanford PD since you know everything about the case. You have seen all the facts interviewed actual WITNESSES and not going off 2 min news sound bites. Hell You even seem to know the stuff not released to the media to make such a stupid comment.

 

[elder999]

I never knew you were an expert Homicide investigator. Maybe you should give your expert opinion to the Sanford PD since you know everything about the case. You have seen all the facts interviewed actual WITNESSES and not going off 2 min news sound bites. Hell You even seem to know the stuff not released to the media to make such a stupid comment.

The chief has "temporarily" stepped down.

He'd been in office 6 months. He'd replaced Bran Tooley, who took an early retirement as a result of an incident involving one of his officer’s sons. Justin Collison was involved in a fistfight caught on video tape. Press reports indicate Collison, the son of a police lieutenant, may have received preferential treatment by the Sanford Police Department.


On 16 July 2005, two parking lot security guards, one the son of a Sanford Police Department veteran and the other a volunteer for the department, shot a Black teen, Travares McGill, in the back, killing him. They claimed self-defense, and the case was dismissed in court.

At least that case made it to court...


In 2010, a Florida Department of Law Enforcement report noted that Sanford police Officer Christopher McClendon had misused his official position by helping a car dealer recover cars from delinquent customers in exchange for having his own car payments forgiven.


In February 2010, press reports indicated one officer was fired, and another, Ned Golden, Junior, was suspended for two weeks after sending sexist and racist text messages on a department computer.


In January, 2011, the same Officer Ned Golden, Junior was assigned to retraining after approaching a car of people at a gas station with a drawn gun. Officer Golden grabbed the car when it pulled away. He then claimed the driver of the car tried to kill him by driving away while he held onto the car. No charges were filed in the case. In August 2011, after an investigation by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Golden was fired. The state report recommended he be charged with filing a false police report, official misconduct and assault with a deadly weapon. No charges were filed by the State Attorney's Office.


Officer Golden is the son of the head of the local police union.

They drug tested Trayvon Martin's body, and found no drugs present. They didn't drug test or breathalyze the civilian who shot him. They dispatched a narcotics detective to the scene, instead of a homicide detective (yes, they do have two distinct divisions at that P.D., small as it is. Said narcotics detective is said by witnesses to have leadingly questioned Zimmerman, and rumored to be a personal friend of his. They had Trayvon Martin's cell phone, and made no effort to identify him with it-his body sat in the morgue as a John Doe.

If it smells like rancid pork, that's usually what it is.

 

[ballen0351]

I can't recall, but I don't believe I said anything about race in my posts, ie: that Zimmerman was a racist. However, in a clip Elder posted, I heard some racial comments, coming from Zimmerman. Perhaps Mr. ZImmerman is in fact a racist. I dont know, you dont know, and I doubt anyone else here knows for sure. So, that being said, it would seem to me that:

Race shouldnt be brought into it but anytime Al Sharpton gets to justify his existance it will come up.

Zimmerman lives in an area in which he feels is plagued by crime.

Zimmerman has called the police but due to the nature of the call, they are probably not putting it high on the priority list.

Zimmerman, after making numerous calls to the Police, and not getting a Star Trek Warp speed response, decided to be the unofficial neighborhood watch patrol.

Which happens alot

Zimmerman saw this kid, and felt he was up to no good, so he called the cops and followed him.

also happens alot

Zimmerman, rather than listen to the dispatcher, got out of his vehicle and walked/ran after the kid.

Thats where he messed up and that why he prob will be charged at some point once its all figured out. If your not a cop dont try to act like one. When the dispatcher says dont follow him then you stop.

Zimmerman seems like he's a hot head, judging by the rap sheet Elder posted. Assault on the LEO. Resisting arrest. Sounds like a hot head.

Taking a big leap here. Not knowing the fact behind the arrest. If I say your under arrest stand up put your hands behind your back and you say "NO I didnt do anything" I can charge you with resisting arrest. I reach out grab your hand and you pull it away now your rsesisting with violence. Ive never personally charged anyone for that but at least here by letter of the law I could but its petty so I wouldnt. I also didnt see any assault charge to go along with the resisting charge so Im not sure how "violent" he actually was. I also dont know if he was found guilty of the charge at all it does not say on what was posted and if he was it shows it to be a felony charge so Im not sure why he had a gun at all if he was convicted of a felony.

The kid may/may not have recognized Zimmerman. I dont know how light/dark it was at the time. Perhaps this kid was afraid.

Im sure he was afraid not being from the area and it goes back to the above post when he decided to follow the kid he may have crossed the line. BUT again not know the truth yet its hard to say at this point.

The kid may have confronted Zimmerman, perhaps asking why he was following him, who he was, etc.

Did Zimmerman shoot this kid because the kid was black? I dont know. I'd say it wouldn't matter if the kid was green or pink or purple, the fact that there was a suspicious person in the area, that wasn't cooperating with Mr. Security Patrol, coupled with the fact this guy seems like a hot head, yeah, I'd say he'd have shot no matter what.

again big leap saying he would have shot anyway. If he calls the police as much as the report says then its prob not the first person he has followed. It was perhaps the first person to try to fight him and that may be what led to the shooting. But again I dont know facts so hard to tell

 

[ballen0351]

The chief has "temporarily" stepped down.

Yep? Not sure how that is relevent to the investigation hes not the investigating detective.

He'd replaced Bran Tooley, who took an early retirement as a result of an incident involving one of his officer’s sons. Justin Collison was involved in a fistfight caught on video tape. Press reports indicate Collison, the son of a police lieutenant, may have received preferential treatment by the Sanford Police Department.

AND? if Tooley didnt work there at time of this shooting Im not sure what it matters to the case but ok.

On 16 July 2005, two parking lot security guards, one the son of a Sanford Police Department veteran and the other a volunteer for the department, shot a Black teen, Travares McGill, in the back, killing him. They claimed self-defense, and the case was dismissed in court.

So now your holding the PD accountable for what non-police officers do? Also if the case was dissmissed by the court the PD has nothing to do with the court. There are 1000's of studies about how people get shot in the back. I can shoot at you and turn and run faster then you can recoginze the threat pull your weapon and fire so by the time you have reacted ive already turned and im hit in the back. I just went to a class put on by the Force science institute about this. The have a website with all the studies on this and reaction times its interesting stuff to look at actually.

In 2010, a Florida Department of Law Enforcement report noted that Sanford police Officer Christopher McClendon had misused his official position by helping a car dealer recover cars from delinquent customers in exchange for having his own car payments forgiven.

Again not sure what that has to do with htis case but ok. If he did it on duty or used info or equipment from his poice job he should have been fired

In February 2010, press reports indicated one officer was fired, and another, Ned Golden, Junior, was suspended for two weeks after sending sexist and racist text messages on a department computer.

Yep it happens everywhere not just sanford but seeing that they actually fired someone means they at least take it seriously

In January, 2011, the same Officer Ned Golden, Junior was assigned to retraining after approaching a car of people at a gas station with a drawn gun. Officer Golden grabbed the car when it pulled away. He then claimed the driver of the car tried to kill him by driving away while he held onto the car. No charges were filed in the case. In August 2011, after an investigation by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, Golden was fired. The state report recommended he be charged with filing a false police report, official misconduct and assault with a deadly weapon. No charges were filed by the State Attorney's Office.

So again he was fired shows again they do not tolerate this crap.

Officer Golden is the son of the head of the local police union.

Not a very good union if he was fired

They drug tested Trayvon Martin's body, and found no drugs present.

Yep part of most autopsys that normal.

They didn't drug test or breathalyze the civilian who shot him.

As I said they dont normally do that. He wasnt charged so you cant force him to take a test. If he was charged you still cant force him to do it. I dont think Ive ever seen a murder suspect durg or alcohol tested unless there was a vehicle involved.

They dispatched a narcotics detective to the scene, instead of a homicide detective (yes, they do have two distinct divisions at that P.D., small as it is

Actually they dont have a Homicide unit. They have a felony crimes unit and a Narcotics Unit. If the Narcotics Detective was dispatched then he was already at work. In this day of no money for OT most small departments wont call in a detective if one is already working. And if they sent a Narcotics detective to a crime then he prob does handle crimes as well. Its just the way it is in small departments.

Said narcotics detective is said by witnesses to have leadingly questioned Zimmerman, and rumored to be a personal friend of his.

Really see that on the news huh? Or do you have any FACTS to back it up?

They had Trayvon Martin's cell phone, and made no effort to identify him with it-his body sat in the morgue as a John Doe.

If this is even true how do you know they were not trying to Identify him? however Not sure how not knowing the kids name effects the case they already knew what happened to him.

If it smells like rancid pork, that's usually what it is.

And you show your predisposed Bias so I wont let the FACTS get in the way of your personal opinions.


If Zimmerman is guilty then he needs to go to jail for the rest of his life. If hes not then he wont. Since I have no FACTS ill leave that up to the people that actually do know whats going on and not judge off of a few conflicting news stories.

 

[billc]

Thanks Ballen0351, good post.

And finally, the video of the witness is going to make national news, it just appeared on Breitbart...

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2012/03/24/Witness-Martin-attacked-Zimmerman

I'm not sure which news show this is from but it is a different report than the original video, but it shows the same witness...more detail may follow...

 

[Master Dan]

Zimmerman was given a permit to carry even though he had priors? Also not a racist? he did use the word Coon to dispatch and other racist words. The issue is not Zimmeran but the police department thier past chief and a prevelant attitude in Florida and southern states how they specifically view black people.
When I first worked and trained in Florida in 1979 I was shocked to meet white folk that had no problem bragging about going out activly to hunt or intimidate black people with guns. I saw signs that still did not allow blacks to be in areas after sun down and when I moved my yacht to Titusville locals told stories of the state troopers setting fire to a home in a white suburban area subdivision because they did not want blacks living there.

Zimmerman clearly chose to ignore the orders from dispatch to stay in his car and not follow. So far it looks like the teen was a model student and no criminal record plus he did not live there was just visiting his father for one week. Seems like given the problems of the neighborhood and the active watchgoing on the father would have been concerned enough to give his son a warning or taken him to the store but hind sight is always 20/20?

Zimmerman did not say hey I fell the gun went off he said self defense which means he actively made the decsion to shoot him and not wound him but kill him.

 

[billc]

The latest news report on this witness from the video I found...

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/state/witness-martin-attacked-zimmerman-03232012

ORLANDO - A witness we haven't heard from before paints a much different picture than we've seen so far of what happened the night 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.
The night of that shooting, police say there was a witness who saw it all.
Our sister station, FOX 35 in Orlando, has spoken to that witness.
What Sanford Police investigators have in the folder, they put together on the killing of Trayvon Martin few know about.
The file now sits in the hands of the state attorney. Now that file is just weeks away from being opened to a grand jury.
It shows more now about why police believed that night that George Zimmerman shouldn't have gone to jail.

Since we don't really know what happened, this witness may actually have seen more than was reported in the video I found....time will tell...

 

[elder999]

This may or may not be true, but this is where knowing something about Martin as a teenager comes in. If Zimmerman is claiming he was going back to his truck, what kind of kid is Martin. Black, white, asian, hispanic or pacific Islander, race doesn't matter, it is what kind of teenager was he.

--Did he get into fights at school.
--did he ever bring a weapon to school
--was he a discipline problem

the reason these questions are important is if Zimmerman can show he was leaving the immediate scene, would Martin, black, white, hispanic, asian, indian, be the kind of teennager to try to continue the encounter with physical contact, which may have escalated the situation. We don't know any of this.

Here:

Starting a fight? Possibly high on drugs and up to no good? No, friends say that description of Martin from the neighborhood crime-watch volunteer who shot and killed the unarmed black teenager doesn't match the young man they knew.
"There's no way I can believe that, because he's not a confrontational kid," said Jerome Horton, who was one of Martin's former football coaches and knew him since he was about 5. "It just wouldn't happen. That's just not that kid."


Since the slaying, a portrait has emerged of Martin as a laid-back young man who loved sports, was extremely close to his father, liked to crack jokes with friends and, according to a lawyer for his family, had never been in trouble with the law.
The son of divorced parents, he grew up in working-class neighborhoods north of Miami's downtown. He and his father, a truck driver, were active in the Miramar Optimist Club, an organization that runs sports and academic programs for young people. Tracy Martin, the teen's father, coached his son's football team.
The boy was a swift athlete, according to a friend, and played a range of positions up to about age 14. After he stopped playing, he remained active in the organization, volunteering six days a week from June through November of last year to help run the team's concession stand.
Martin cooked hamburgers, hot dogs and chicken wings alongside his father at the stand. He loved talking to the kids, asking them what position they played and whether they were good, Horton recalled. He would call the mothers "Ma'am," and if they had a stroller or an item they needed help with, Martin stepped in.
"Everyone out there loved him," Horton said.
Martin was tall and lanky — only 140 pounds, according to the family's attorney — and his nickname was "Slimm."


Martin's parents kept a close eye on him, but they didn't have to be too strict, since he stayed out of trouble, Collins said. However, he had recently been suspended from school for five days for tardiness, his English teacher, Michelle Kypriss, told the Orlando Sentinel. School officials did not respond to a request for comment.
Martin's father was not happy and grounded the teen for the duration of the suspension.
Trayvon "knew he was wrong," Horton said.


Under state privacy law, only serious felonies appear on juveniles' public criminal records, and Martin did not have one. Citing the same law, Sanford police Sgt. David Morgenstern said he could neither confirm nor deny the family's statement that Martin had never gotten in legal trouble.

 

[billc]

Finally, we may have some insight into Martin.

 

[elder999]

Finally, we may have some insight into Martin.

It's what people-not just his parents-have been saying all along.

Can't be too much of a surprise.

 

[Empty Hands]

It's what people-not just his parents-have been saying all along.

Can't be too much of a surprise.

He's black and was shot to death. Al Sharpton is also involved. You should know by now that means he's really a vicious criminal.

You know how "those" people are.

 

[ballen0351]

Zimmerman was given a permit to carry even though he had priors? Also not a racist? he did use the word Coon to dispatch and other racist words. The issue is not Zimmeran but the police department thier past chief and a prevelant attitude in Florida and southern states how they specifically view black people.
When I first worked and trained in Florida in 1979 I was shocked to meet white folk that had no problem bragging about going out activly to hunt or intimidate black people with guns. I saw signs that still did not allow blacks to be in areas after sun down and when I moved my yacht to Titusville locals told stories of the state troopers setting fire to a home in a white suburban area subdivision because they did not want blacks living there.

So now were going back to the 70's as to why Zimmerman wasnt charged? Why stop there why not go back to Rosewood in 1923, or even further lets blame Zimmerman not being charged on slavery. Save your Racist Fla cop crap for someone else Zimmermans not white so by your thought process they should be trying to pin the shooting on Zimmerman to send away a Hispanic then they gt a win win 2 minoritys out of town.

Zimmerman did not say hey I fell the gun went off he said self defense which means he actively made the decsion to shoot him and not wound him but kill him.

no he made the decision to stop the threat he shot once not 15 times. I would agree with your statement if he unloaded on the kid.

 

[ballen0351]

He's black and was shot to death. Al Sharpton is also involved. You should know by now that means he's really a vicious criminal.

You know how "those" people are.

Dont forget the Black Panther Party
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...anthers-protest-20120324,0,1232157,full.story

Trayvon Martin case: New Black Panthers offer $10,000 bounty for capture of George Zimmerman

New Black Panther leader Mikhail Muhammad announced the reward during a protest in Sanford Saturday. And when asked whether he was inciting violence, Muhammad replied defiantly: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."

 

[Empty Hands]

Here, let me be entirely clear. When Major Hassan shot up a base, no one tried to find out the personal characteristics of his victims or tried to come up with excuses for Hassan. When the innumerable stories show up on this site about someone defending themselves or their home from an intruder are posted, no one tries to come up with reasons why the intruder might really have been in the right or interrogate the character of the defender. When biases aren't involved, a number of the very same people in this thread shrugging their shoulders and saying "how can we really know?" are perfectly happy to pass judgment with the information they have. There is a lot more evidence for the fact that Zimmerman is a murderer than there is for Obama being a crypto-Marxist terrorist trying to convert the country to sharia socialism.

We know beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman sought out this confrontation - this comes from his own words. We know based on this fact that there is no possible claim for self-defense. And yet, some are still grasping at straws, trying to deny the obvious and plain evidence, to make a blameless 17 year old dead kid the one at fault and his murderer blameless. Now why might that be?

The sad thing is, even discussing Zimmerman or Trayvon's character (which is irrelevant even if he was a criminal given the clear facts of the case) are a distraction from the real problem. Scumbags murder innocent people every day. It can never be stopped entirely. The real scandal is the utter failure of the justice system to follow their sworn duty in this case. They accepted Zimmerman's story uncritically, and never dug any deeper. Anyone with any sense knows why - the shooting fit into the usual mold and their view of the world, and they had no problem seeing the young black kid as the aggressor, no matter how little sense it made. Case closed, that's some solid police work Lou.

Of course, this is America, we can never just be honest with ourselves and deal with the problems and the reality as it stands. So the circus of distraction continues, for reasons which don't really surprise me but I also don't understand.

 

[Empty Hands]

Dont forget the Black Panther Party
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...anthers-protest-20120324,0,1232157,full.story

Trayvon Martin case: New Black Panthers offer $10,000 bounty for capture of George Zimmerman

Yes, which means that the family is lying, Trayvon is the reincarnation of Tupac, Obama is automatically impeached and Sarah Palin is now President.

At least come up with something relevant.

 

[Empty Hands]

I will give you guys one thing. At least you aren't going the Geraldo route and blaming the shooting on the hoodie. Good work all!

 

[ballen0351]

Here, let me be entirely clear. When Major Hassan shot up a base, no one tried to find out the personal characteristics of his victims or tried to come up with excuses for Hassan.

There were plenty of excuses thrown out about why Hassan did the shooting and it was made very clear by the govt that it was NOT Terrorism.

When the innumerable stories show up on this site about someone defending themselves or their home from an intruder are posted, no one tries to come up with reasons why the intruder might really have been in the right or interrogate the character of the defender. When biases aren't involved, a number of the very same people in this thread shrugging their shoulders and saying "how can we really know?" are perfectly happy to pass judgment with the information they have.

Big difference between someone breaking into your home and a fight on the street with conflicting witnesses one is much more cut and dry then the other.

There is a lot more evidence for the fact that Zimmerman is a murderer than there is for Obama being a crypto-Marxist terrorist trying to convert the country to sharia socialism.

Well sonce Ive never thought that about Obama I assume thats not addrssed to me

We know beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman sought out this confrontation - this comes from his own words.

correct I agree

We know based on this fact that there is no possible claim for self-defense.

Not Correct. Just because I follow you and try to let the police know where you are does not mean I give up my right to defend myself if Im attacked by you. Im not saying thats what happened in this case but your statement is false. We dont know what happened in this case.

And yet, some are still grasping at straws, trying to deny the obvious and plain evidence, to make a blameless 17 year old dead kid the one at fault and his murderer blameless. Now why might that be?

Im not trying to pass blame on anyone I just dont agree with the statement of others that the Sanford Police department is a bunch of white racist that are covering up a murder. If zimmerman is guilty he needs to go to jail for the rest of his life.

The sad thing is, even discussing Zimmerman or Trayvon's character (which is irrelevant even if he was a criminal given the clear facts of the case) are a distraction from the real problem.

I agree with you 100%

Scumbags murder innocent people every day. It can never be stopped entirely.

True

The real scandal is the utter failure of the justice system to follow their sworn duty in this case. They accepted Zimmerman's story uncritically, and never dug any deeper.

And you know this how? You know the entire investigation and everything thats going on? You sat in on the interviews of all the witnesses?

Anyone with any sense knows why - the shooting fit into the usual mold and their view of the world, and they had no problem seeing the young black kid as the aggressor, no matter how little sense it made. Case closed, that's some solid police work Lou.

Yep Racist Pigs you got it. What point would an Accredited Law Enforcement Agency Gain over covering this up knowing the national attention its gained? WHy would a Law enforcement officer risk his livelyhood protecting Zimmerman? Truth be told most real Officers hate Wanna Be security guards they are a pain in the butt and now you see why.

Of course, this is America, we can never just be honest with ourselves and deal with the problems and the reality as it stands. So the circus of distraction continues, for reasons which don't really surprise me but I also don't understand.

Yes and you have made up your mind after reading a few news stories with no real evidence in the case and refuse to wait and see what happens you have blood and you want it now who cares about facts it the LA Times said its murder then by god its murder.

 

[ballen0351]

Yes, which means that the family is lying, Trayvon is the reincarnation of Tupac, Obama is automatically impeached and Sarah Palin is now President.

At least come up with something relevant.

and Al Sharpton was relevant?

 

[Empty Hands]

and Al Sharpton was relevant?

You know I'm not the one who brought him up...right?

 

[Master Dan]

So now were going back to the 70's as to why Zimmerman wasnt charged? Why stop there why not go back to Rosewood in 1923, or even further lets blame Zimmerman not being charged on slavery. Save your Racist Fla cop crap for someone else Zimmermans not white so by your thought process they should be trying to pin the shooting on Zimmerman to send away a Hispanic then they gt a win win 2 minoritys out of town.

no he made the decision to stop the threat he shot once not 15 times. I would agree with your statement if he unloaded on the kid.

No don't go back to the 70's go back 150 years what ever its a cultural fact in the south or other areas a black person cannot walk or wear certain clothes or just go where they want with out risk. Zimmerman being Hispanic is not the issue he was an agressive non black and there was probable cause the police department is a mess and he should have been arrested and leave to a jury to decide inocent or guilty plane and simple.

By the way I wouldn't believe anything FIX news put out if they said the sky is blue its a Faciast Raciist Propaganda outlet. Oh yeh we have a white man behind a door no name being interviewed that Martin was attacking Zimerman and the screaming help me was from him. So when you guys pull a gun you scream help help me uh uh.

No body is saying pin anything on Zimerman but a weopon was fired a person killed and give a break if Zimerman was black and Martin was white he would have been arrested and probably would not look to good after the arrest?
It just as bad as the entire GOP and all the Tea Party and the whole oposition to Obama is they can't look in the mirror and say it comes down to they just hate having a black man in the White House? Theres an Oximoron for you?