Ultimate Fighter 3

Rich Parsons

A Student of Martial Arts
Founding Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Oct 13, 2001
Messages
16,835
Reaction score
1,079
Location
Michigan
Brian R. VanCise said:
Yes, that is definately true! :)

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com

I know where I am weak. I recognize it. I try to understand it, and stay away from it.

Was it Pride or Ego or both that made it hard for him to listen to those who did try to help him?
 

rutherford

Master Black Belt
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
1,194
Reaction score
13
Location
Vermont, USA
When he said something like, "I've been winning every fight. Even the fights I lost - they were all due to getting caught in some silly submission."

I thought the answer was clear.
 

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,520
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
His ego was just to big so that he would not listen to his fellow team mates! Good lesson there, in that you may not see your weakness but someone else may be able to point it out to you. Listening to other people can help you out in any aspect of your life.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
 

James Patrick

Orange Belt
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
96
Reaction score
3
Location
Rochester Hills, MI
rutherford said:
When he said something like, "I've been winning every fight. Even the fights I lost - they were all due to getting caught in some silly submission."

I thought the answer was clear.

Some people just aren't coachable. I didn't want him to lose, but I knew he was going to get rocked just because he didn't seem like he wanted to learn anything.

Hey, whats up with that one guy from Shamrocks team consulting the guy from the other team? That's kind of a team betrayal, no?
 

rutherford

Master Black Belt
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
1,194
Reaction score
13
Location
Vermont, USA
James Patrick said:
Hey, whats up with that one guy from Shamrocks team consulting the guy from the other team? That's kind of a team betrayal, no?

There's at least 2 groups that have formed alliances across teams. Remember, the two guys who train under Randy Couture were at the beginning of the show.
 
OP
scottcatchot

scottcatchot

Green Belt
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
198
Reaction score
0
Location
texas
It is that Survivor mentality crossing over. They are there for themselves, not for the team.
 

crushing

Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
5,082
Reaction score
136
scottcatchot said:
It is that Survivor mentality crossing over. They are there for themselves, not for the team.

Which team? Team Ortiz, Team Shamrock, or Team Dagger? :)
 

Rich Parsons

A Student of Martial Arts
Founding Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Oct 13, 2001
Messages
16,835
Reaction score
1,079
Location
Michigan
Before this season:

I had no respect for either coach as a person.

Now into this season, I have even less respect for Ken Shamrock, who seems to be interested in living his old glory days in an almost drug induced haze.

I also have developed some minor respect for Tito Ortiz. He admits he is playing mind games. He admits he is being an *******. He also admitted he did not do enough research and missed a guy that ended up on Shamrock's team. So he has plans to for the head game with him to pysch him out before he gets into the ring to make a mistake. He works he team even if I do not always agree with the methods. Now that being said, I still think he is a jerk, but the fact that he admits he is a jerk and also capable of making a mistake, means I respect him for those points.
 
OP
scottcatchot

scottcatchot

Green Belt
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
198
Reaction score
0
Location
texas
rich parsons said:
I still think he is a jerk, but the fact that he admits he is a jerk and also capable of making a mistake, means I respect him for those points.
I agree, I have always disliked Tito, but he does seem to be attempting to be a good coach and working well with the guys. I guess He is human like the rest of us....
 

Brian R. VanCise

MT Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
27,758
Reaction score
1,520
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Rich Parsons said:
Before this season:

I had no respect for either coach as a person.

Now into this season, I have even less respect for Ken Shamrock, who seems to be interested in living his old glory days in an almost drug induced haze.

I also have developed some minor respect for Tito Ortiz. He admits he is playing mind games. He admits he is being an *******. He also admitted he did not do enough research and missed a guy that ended up on Shamrock's team. So he has plans to for the head game with him to pysch him out before he gets into the ring to make a mistake. He works he team even if I do not always agree with the methods. Now that being said, I still think he is a jerk, but the fact that he admits he is a jerk and also capable of making a mistake, means I respect him for those points.

We are both in agreement on this Rich. Shamrock continues to disapoint and while I do not like Tito, I am gaining some respect for him as a coach.

Brian R. VanCise
www.instinctiveresponsetraining.com
 

rutherford

Master Black Belt
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
1,194
Reaction score
13
Location
Vermont, USA
So, Ken made some interesting statements. He told all his fighters that he wasn't going to work them hard in the gym, that if they didn't come to TUF with the skill and the heart to win, they weren't going to pick it up a week before they fight.

Tito has the opposite strategy. He's working his guys really hard, and you can hear him talk about what skills he thinks his guys still need to pick up to be well rounded fighters.

What do you think?

Seems to me that Ken's strategy isn't working, especially because his guys don't believe that it's a good strategy and have pretty low morale.
 

crushing

Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 31, 2005
Messages
5,082
Reaction score
136
It is really tough to tell if it's the training strategy that is making the difference, or the coaches' eye for talent when picking the teams. For example, Ortiz nearly laughed out loud when Shamrock picked Kristian so early.

I would like to think the training is making a difference, but that may be because I like how Ortiz is doing his training.

Speaking of Kristian, it took me a while to realize that it wasn't an asterisk or Cingular logo carved into the back of his head and that he was giving props to home with a fleur-de-lis.
 

James Patrick

Orange Belt
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
96
Reaction score
3
Location
Rochester Hills, MI
rutherford said:
So, Ken made some interesting statements. He told all his fighters that he wasn't going to work them hard in the gym, that if they didn't come to TUF with the skill and the heart to win, they weren't going to pick it up a week before they fight.

Tito has the opposite strategy. He's working his guys really hard, and you can hear him talk about what skills he thinks his guys still need to pick up to be well rounded fighters.

What do you think?

Seems to me that Ken's strategy isn't working, especially because his guys don't believe that it's a good strategy and have pretty low morale.

I think you gotta work hard if you expect to win. You can't just sit back and think "I either have or don't have the skills, and training won't make the difference." I think that training makes a huge difference, which is why Tito's guys are winning.
 
OP
scottcatchot

scottcatchot

Green Belt
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
198
Reaction score
0
Location
texas
crushing said:
Speaking of Kristian, it took me a while to realize that it wasn't an asterisk or Cingular logo carved into the back of his head and that he was giving props to home with a fleur-de-lis.

Oh, is that what that was supposed eo be? I still had not figured it out.
 
OP
scottcatchot

scottcatchot

Green Belt
Joined
Jan 30, 2006
Messages
198
Reaction score
0
Location
texas
Ken is being very unprofessional and not giving his guys the benefit of his experience. He should be working them, showing them where they need to improve. These guys are here because they all want that contract, not everyone will get it but they could all gain some experience and learn from a "legend" and have ideas of what to work on if they don't win. Unfortunately all Kens team seems to be getting is blown off.
 

patroldawg27

Orange Belt
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
64
Reaction score
1
Location
Los Angeles, CA
That's because Ken beleives his won hype. I think he's too into the "World's Most Dangerous Man" and the Lion's Den being god's gift to MMA. It's just too bad that his team has to suffer for it.
 

tshadowchaser

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Founding Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 29, 2001
Messages
13,460
Reaction score
733
Location
Athol, Ma. USA
I tend to agree whith what is being said by most, that ken has hurt his team by not training him to the best of his ability and knowledge. Then again maybe he figures they where picked for the show so they must have knowledge and will start doing something on there own.
Tito on the other hand I am learning to respect (something I never did befor) He is training his people in both the phyical and mental aspects of the game and seems to be doing a damn good job of it.
I wonder if Ken just did not have a clue as to what to do or just took the job to get his face in front of the world one more time
 

Rich Parsons

A Student of Martial Arts
Founding Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Oct 13, 2001
Messages
16,835
Reaction score
1,079
Location
Michigan
tshadowchaser said:
I tend to agree whith what is being said by most, that ken has hurt his team by not training him to the best of his ability and knowledge. Then again maybe he figures they where picked for the show so they must have knowledge and will start doing something on there own.
Tito on the other hand I am learning to respect (something I never did befor) He is training his people in both the phyical and mental aspects of the game and seems to be doing a damn good job of it.
I wonder if Ken just did not have a clue as to what to do or just took the job to get his face in front of the world one more time


What if this to the best of Ken's Ability?

What if he got where he is just being able to take more pain then someone else and not really on teching methods or techniques, just being the one who can stand more pain or punishment?
 

green meanie

Master Black Belt
Joined
Dec 13, 2005
Messages
1,112
Reaction score
5
Location
Pennsylvania, USA
Rich Parsons said:
What if this to the best of Ken's Ability?

What if he got where he is just being able to take more pain then someone else and not really on teching methods or techniques, just being the one who can stand more pain or punishment?

Good question and an excellent point.
 

Marginal

Senior Master
Joined
Jul 7, 2002
Messages
3,276
Reaction score
67
Location
Colorado
Rich Parsons said:
What if this to the best of Ken's Ability?

What if he got where he is just being able to take more pain then someone else and not really on teching methods or techniques, just being the one who can stand more pain or punishment?

I think Ken's ablities as a coach and his abilities as a fighter are very different things. Meaning that Ken wasn't self-taught. The Lion's Den seemed to be more Bob's operation than it was ever really Ken's. Ken mainly helped with the funds via WWE contracts etc.
 

Latest Discussions

Top