Uechi-Ryu Karate - SanSeiRyu Bunkai Demonstration

[Touch Of Death]

I have been a member of MartialTalk for a relatively short time compared to some others, and do not post often because of my teaching job, dojo duties, and family focus. However when I do post, I try to share information that helps resolve questions, or that augments sparse historical information.

Not everything in history (be it a person, place, event, or development of an art form) is known (and frustratingly enough, some is not meant to be known). But quite a lot about UechiRyu and its history is already published -- some of it in other languages, but still available as a published piece, article, magazine, book, video, etc.

For many years I posted information, research, and translations from Japanese on George E. Mattson’s Eastern Arts forums. It would be nearly impossible to collect and encapsulate all that information. So when I ask to be contacted off-line on any specific topic, I do my best to honor the correspondent by providing what I have on hand, and directing him to a collected list of forum entries (links) in which he may find much more detailed information, possibly more than he thought existed. At 61, I spent 41 years training in UechiRyu (the past 36 on Okinawa, and the last 17 under the top senior in the system) and learned at least a few hard-earned lesser-known facts about the system and its history. But I found that much has already been published, just not shared with foreigners very much. And so I am willing to share with those who need or appreciate it. But it would mean little to, say, a long-time practitioner of TKD, or a boxer, or some other non-related system, unless he was seriously researching to make a change to UechiRyu. So not too many actually care enough to contact me for this information, which indicates to me that not many readers feel they would benefit from it in the first place...

Also, I’m not sure if it’s OK to post links to another forum – on this forum. Maybe it is, but somehow it disagrees with my sense of propriety. So I prefer to take some discussions off line.

You were not, to my knowledge, excluded from that invitation...

So -- I am not teasing anyone with “secretiveness”; rather I do offer to share – just in a more personal manner. If this can be understood by other forum members, I’m gratified...

Best,

Seizan

But we need you to comment on our ideas, or you will just be a lost name on the list. This post won't be a new post for long.

 

[Seizan]

I'm not worried about staying an unknown. I do what I can when I can. As seen, I corrected a few bits of information in this thread already.

 

[Seizan]

~ Tomoyose Sensei is 85 years old, not in his 90's (born in December 1928), and

Sorry, he is 86. He will be 87 in December. The video shown was made at a public hall near my home in Yomitan in October 2002, when he was 73.

Yes, I failed math.

Seizan

 

[hoshin1600]

Hello Seizan,
Good to see you here. Every time uechi-ryu comes up here I wish I had your direct knowledge. You really should write a book. Many of the topics you have written about on "the other" website are very in depth but I can never seem to find them when I need them. I hope everything I have written is consistent with what you know. If not feel free to message me.

Hoshin

 

[Seizan]

Hoshin,

Hello old friend. If you Google me, you'll find my e-mail address easily enough. Send me a short line and I'll send you the list of links to the various threads I contributed to, and a bit more...

There was a book in the works but things changed, people came and went, some information had to be omitted (when some folks left I felt it unethical to use their contributions), and some points in the history are still unclear. Some should really be presented by a Uechi Family member and not by an "outsider". Some of it is rather sensitive and involves other people and families, so should be handled with more delicacy than I can muster. Quite a lot has been published and so is open knowledge, but the whole story is still incomplete. I do my best to present what I can without stepping on respectable toes that live very close by to my home and dojo...

Regards,

Seizan

 

[Juanpa Ookami]

Getting a bit off-topic, but I am a bit curious about why Kanbun Uechi learnt only three kata. Not say that there isn't probably plenty to learn even in those, but it just seems curious.

I'm just new here so sorry if I revive this post, as Uechi Ryu student I can confirm that learn Sanchin 100% correct is very, very, very hard. Learn the movement is easy, because is not a complicate kata, but the complication is in perform all the movement, breathing, position,... in a perfect way, also the katas was simplified from the original form to teach them so until you are not able to perform the basic form you can not move to the advance form of the kata. Is really dificult control all the body in the correct way to do a perfect kata, from outside could just seems another karate kata, in fact it seems a very easy karate kata, but that is becuase is not usually teached in the original way. That is the reason way kanbum only get 3 katas in the time that it was in China, he could not learn other kata until he was not able to learn Sanchin and prepare the body to continue the larning path.

 

[Seizan]

I'm just new here so sorry if I revive this post, as Uechi Ryu student I can confirm that learn Sanchin 100% correct is very, very, very hard. Learn the movement is easy, because is not a complicate kata, but the complication is in perform all the movement, breathing, position,... in a perfect way, also the katas was simplified from the original form to teach them so until you are not able to perform the basic form you can not move to the advance form of the kata. Is really dificult control all the body in the correct way to do a perfect kata, from outside could just seems another karate kata, in fact it seems a very easy karate kata, but that is becuase is not usually teached in the original way. That is the reason way kanbum only get 3 katas in the time that it was in China, he could not learn other kata until he was not able to learn Sanchin and prepare the body to continue the larning path.

Welcome to MartialTalk.

According to my teacher, Kanbun Sensei learned three kata in China. However he didn't learn a basic and advanced form of any of those three. He learned -- and taught -- only one form of Sanchin. Of course it was roughly performed by new students and he refined it as training went on, but there was no advanced form separate from a beginning or basic form.

It normally took ten years to "master" Sanchin alone. There were many other techniques and training drills, conditioning, etc. to learn along the way, but ten years was average. Kanbun Sensei learned Sanchin well enough in three years that Shuu Shiwa then taught him Seisan, advancing Kanbun Sensei far past his peer students. By the end of a ten-year period, Kanbun Sensei had learned up to Sandairyu (Sanseiryu) and was authorized to teach. He intended to learn Suparinpe but did not have the opportunity, as he left China after teaching for three years. This was stated by his son Kanei Sensei and is quoted in the 1977 Kyohon.

We have few kata (three from China and five additional forms created by Uechi Kanei Sensei and the Kata Development Committee), but in UechiRyu we emphasize the depth of understanding these forms and their concepts, not the number of forms.

Regards,

Seizan

 

[Juanpa Ookami]

Welcome to MartialTalk.

According to my teacher, Kanbun Sensei learned three kata in China. However he didn't learn a basic and advanced form of any of those three. He learned -- and taught -- only one form of Sanchin. Of course it was roughly performed by new students and he refined it as training went on, but there was no advanced form separate from a beginning or basic form.

It normally took ten years to "master" Sanchin alone. There were many other techniques and training drills, conditioning, etc. to learn along the way, but ten years was average. Kanbun Sensei learned Sanchin well enough in three years that Shuu Shiwa then taught him Seisan, advancing Kanbun Sensei far past his peer students. By the end of a ten-year period, Kanbun Sensei had learned up to Sandairyu (Sanseiryu) and was authorized to teach. He intended to learn Suparinpe but did not have the opportunity, as he left China after teaching for three years. This was stated by his son Kanei Sensei and is quoted in the 1977 Kyohon.

We have few kata (three from China and five additional forms created by Uechi Kanei Sensei and the Kata Development Committee), but in UechiRyu we emphasize the depth of understanding these forms and their concepts, not the number of forms.

Regards,

Seizan

You are completly right, sorry the english is not my mother language so maybe I do not explain correctly, with the diferent version (levels) of the kata what i wanted to mention is that nowadays, there are different versions of sanchin depending of the sensei line and the influence that he has from other styles, as Sanchin is the first kata that you must learn and you need a lot of time to be a master of the kata the new students do not learn the original Sanching kata, they learn a simplify version, I never have seen the original form, but my sensei has talked us about it. But as you mention Kanbum didn't learn diferent version,is something that appear later with the transmision of the kata.

 

[TimoS]

in UechiRyu we emphasize the depth of understanding these forms and their concepts, not the number of forms.

I think that's a really good idea and we try our best to do the same.

 

[Seizan]

You are completly right, sorry the english is not my mother language so maybe I do not explain correctly, with the diferent version (levels) of the kata what i wanted to mention is that nowadays, there are different versions of sanchin depending of the sensei line and the influence that he has from other styles, as Sanchin is the first kata that you must learn and you need a lot of time to be a master of the kata the new students do not learn the original Sanching kata, they learn a simplify version, I never have seen the original form, but my sensei has talked us about it. But as you mention Kanbum didn't learn diferent version,is something that appear later with the transmision of the kata.

Interesting. In 41 years of training in UechiRyu I have seen only the entire Sanchin as it is performed from Day One to top senior student level. I have never seen a simplified version. Kanbun Sensei's old original Sanchin is a bit different from the modern style but not significantly so (to see it).

We practice the original old style of Sanchin, Seisan, and Sandairyu. We apply older style technique to the "added five" therefor performing them in the old style.

I have seen "test kata / performance kata / competition kata" style taught for the same kata (like Seichin, or Seiryu, etc.) in some UechiRyu dojo. It can get really fancy and quite interesting to see the variations! However we were taught that there is only one performance style for any kata.

 

[Juanpa Ookami]

Interesting. In 41 years of training in UechiRyu I have seen only the entire Sanchin as it is performed from Day One to top senior student level. I have never seen a simplified version. Kanbun Sensei's old original Sanchin is a bit different from the modern style but not significantly so (to see it).

We practice the original old style of Sanchin, Seisan, and Sandairyu. We apply older style technique to the "added five" therefor performing them in the old style.

I have seen "test kata / performance kata / competition kata" style taught for the same kata (like Seichin, or Seiryu, etc.) in some UechiRyu dojo. It can get really fancy and quite interesting to see the variations! However we were taught that there is only one performance style for any kata.

For sure that he original is only one, and I do not know the diferences, also is posible that I do not appreaciate it, maybe my sempais already do it and I'm not prepared yet to see the difference. I do not expect a big different, and probably are small details that help to the comprehension of the kata. Maybe say that there are different version or level is not the right way to deffine it, some day I will return back to the post to say if I learn something different of are only small details

 

[Seizan]

The Sanchin I teach was taught by my teacher, who was a direct student of Kanbun Sensei. It is not the same as the Sanchin you practice, I think. This older style is taught only within my association on Okinawa. All others teach the Sanchin etc. that was taught by Uechi Kanei Sensei, who modified his father's old style.

This is also quoted in the 1977 Kyohon by Kanei Sensei himself.

Old or new style, the depth of understanding the kata and its concepts is what's most important.

 

[Juanpa Ookami]

The Sanchin I teach was taught by my teacher, who was a direct student of Kanbun Sensei. It is not the same as the Sanchin you practice, I think. This older style is taught only within my association on Okinawa. All others teach the Sanchin etc. that was taught by Uechi Kanei Sensei, who modified his father's old style.

This is also quoted in the 1977 Kyohon by Kanei Sensei himself.

Old or new style, the depth of understanding the kata and its concepts is what's most important.

If it's not too indiscreet a question, who was your sensei? We also practice the traditional Uechi Ryu, we are members of the shubukai than kanbun uechi create.

 

[Seizan]

My teacher was Toyama Seiko Sensei (1928-2009), last active student of Uechi Kanbun Sensei.

http://zankyokai.tacticalenergyinc.com/

Regards,

Seizan

 

[Juanpa Ookami]

Oh, amaizing, I have seen and hear about Toyama Sensei, is a pleasure know you.
Domo arigato gozaimashita