Traditional or MMA preference

[MJS]

Ken- I see what you are saying, but please refer to my first paragraph. I'm saying that forms are a good thing to do, but if all you are doing is just the movements, and not having any idea as to what you are doing, then why do them? Its no different than a SD tech. If the Inst. just stands in front of you and says, "Do it this way." you will not have any understanding of what you are doing.

Dont get me wrong. I'm not totally aganst forms. I think that there are applications that can be used, but I dont see them as the only key to being a successful fighter.

Mike

 

[rmcrobertson]

#12: Forms map out a set of possibilities, within which meanings such as applications can be constructed.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by A.R.K. I await your factual data that supports your above conclusions.

:asian: [/B]

If you want factual data, my recommendation is to go talk to the founding members of our elite forces yourself. They can tell you in their own words what I have stated in my previous post. I can assure that the experience will broaden your horizon beyond your imagination or the limited scope of your internet search engine.

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
#12: Forms map out a set of possibilities, within which meanings such as applications can be constructed.

I'm SO on your side, but you're starting to string words together more and more randomly that only sound good. For most people, they are meaningless, and I'm not so sure about the rest of us!

How about ...

#13: Creating synergism through pro-active movement combinations

#14: Strengthening conceptual interconnectedness of application with practice regiment

#15: Preserving flow while integrating technical depth into realistic intention

Sorry, man.

:deadhorse:

Forms rock, if used properly, but it's becoming like an argument over the effective length of a jump rope at this point.

 

[rmcrobertson]

#13: Forms teach students to edit appropriately, in the course of each practitioner's attempt to understand and execute, eliminate what is unnecessary and fancy, and explore applications.

 

[Brother John]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
#11: Forms provide a repeatable vocabulary that encourages students who are not brilliant beginners to learn, and encourage advanced students to constrantly re-examine their basic premises and habits of movement.

Hey Bro.
Can I steal that one????

I like it, very accurate and to the point.
thanks
Your Bro.
John

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
#13: Forms teach students to edit appropriately, in the course of each practitioner's attempt to understand and execute, eliminate what is unnecessary and fancy, and explore applications.

Translation:

Forums teach posters to edit posts appropriately, in the course of each poster's attempt to figure out what they are typing, eliminating what is unecessary and fancy, and explore superfluous verbosity anyway.

:deadhorse:

 

[rmcrobertson]

#14: Forms teach theory, separate theory from practice, and lay the foundation for the development of praxis.

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
#14: Forms teach theory, separate theory from practice, and lay the foundation for the development of praxis.

Why would separating theory from practice be a GOOD thing?

 

[twinkletoes]

The separation of theory and practice/application is what started the whole McDojo problem in the first place.

I know plenty of Martial Artists who can quote the theory all day long, but can't keep their hands up when I come in punching.

the fact is that without forms, it is easier for a teacher to make something up that looks like it will work in real life but doesn't.

I don't see how forms make that harder. Instead of practicing something with a partner, the instructor can cop out and have them practice alone. And if the instructor is a hack (which I'm not implying of anyone here, but they're out there) he can make up illogical, impractical, or just plain stupid applications and make them practice those.

Forms don't make bad instruction any better.

~TT

 

[rmcrobertson]

#15: Forms ingrain postures, movements, actions, gestures, that serve later as reference standards in "real-life," "practical," situations.

 

[MJS]

Originally posted by rmcrobertson
#15: Forms ingrain postures, movements, actions, gestures, that serve later as reference standards in "real-life," "practical," situations.

Good point!!

Mike

 

[A.R.K.]

Ken, you can do much better than that. That wasn't a reply, it was a cop out. If your going to spout things, at least be prepared to back them up. Your original post was unfactual, innaccurate and plainly the opinion of someone inexperienced.

:shrug:

 

[Ken JP Stuczynski]

Originally posted by A.R.K.
Ken, you can do much better than that. That wasn't a reply, it was a cop out. If your going to spout things, at least be prepared to back them up. Your original post was unfactual, innaccurate and plainly the opinion of someone inexperienced.

Is this directed at me? I have no idea what you are talking about. What reply?

 

[A.R.K.]

Not at all, my mistake for not clarifying. I forgot their were more than one. My apologies.

:asian:

 

[Shinzu]

although i do like alot of MMA techniques. i like a traditional style better.

 

[jdam76]

The way you train is going to have a huge effect on how you fight. When MMA's train, they train at nearly 100%. This shows when they fight. We train with the same techniques and movements that we will use in a real situation, and we train with them at full speed. These "deadly techniques" that are taught all over the world are never trained at full speed with a resisting opponent. I know this because I spent 7+ years in Shorin-ryu karate. It would be like a pro boxer never doing anything except shadow boxing and hitting the bag. How well is he going to do against a boxer who does both those and does heavy sparring with another person as well every day? He is going to lose. These are just my opinions, not trying to offend anyone.

 

[KenpoNoChikara]

I think it's best to learn both, they both have benefits and things to learn from. Some may concentrate more on technique, others scientific principles (epak, etc) other phisical endurence. They are all good to learn, in my opinion.

 

[Ippon Ken]

The way you train is going to have a huge effect on how you fight. When MMA's train, they train at nearly 100%. This shows when they fight. We train with the same techniques and movements that we will use in a real situation, and we train with them at full speed. These "deadly techniques" that are taught all over the world are never trained at full speed with a resisting opponent. I know this because I spent 7+ years in Shorin-ryu karate. It would be like a pro boxer never doing anything except shadow boxing and hitting the bag. How well is he going to do against a boxer who does both those and does heavy sparring with another person as well every day? He is going to lose. These are just my opinions, not trying to offend anyone.

You did a style of Shorin Ryu for 7 years, but feel that somehow Arnis is better? Arnis is a TMA. I am part Filipino, lived there through my teen years, and can say the majority of pilipinos do not agree with the assertion that the FMAs are nontraditional, or that they are superior for fighting than say a good Shorin Ryuha. I know they pale in comparison to good Okinawan Karate instruction, although they do have their merits. This is what happens when certain folks take over (monopolize) MAs in the states.

What Shorin style did you do? Was it anything like Shobayashi or Shorinji Ryu? Did you know that 1-2 years of experience in those styles led to cats like Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace "inventing" american kickboxing? Real Shorin has lots of sparring with noncompliant partners. That's the beginner and journeyman aspect of it. That's the easy part. Using your mind to figure out what it is that kata trains is the key.

That's why using the word "art" in MMAs is silly. Art denotes not only skill, but singular refinement from a legacy of proven techs taken and made your own. Get off the bandwagon and reevaluate quitting something that could have made you a unique artist, not a capitalistic bandwagoneer. How many times you gonna fight Wanderlei Silva anyhoo?

If you know a good Shorin-ka (especially a yudansha) who can't kickbox/free-spar well then he isn't doing real Shorin Ryu or he/she just sucks. That's what we did in Shorinkan (at least twice a week), hands to the face and all, but we used kata to evaluate the practitioners during grading. The kata defines the ryu.

Maybe your teacher and dojo was whack. Peace...

 

[SMP]

although you may not agree with what someone say insulting them ads little to your argument