Tory MP derides jobless as 'no-good bastards'

[Gordon Nore]

Tory MP derides jobless as 'no-good bastards'

November 25, 2009
Richard J. Brennan

Comments by Maurice Vellacott, left, a Saskatchewan MP, and Gerald Keddy, of Nova Scotia, have sparked anger in the House of Commons.


TOM HANSON/THE CANADIAN PRESS FILE PHOTO (left), ADRIAN WYLD/THE CANADIAN PRESS


OTTAWA–Comments by Conservative MPs deriding homeless people and describing abortion as a procedure that makes women more available to men demonstrate the party's true colours, opposition critics say.
Nova Scotia Conservative MP Gerald Keddy has apologized for describing unemployed Nova Scotians as "those no-good bastards sitting on the sidewalk in Halifax that can't get work."


There has been no such apology from Saskatchewan MP Maurice Vellacott for his unflattering depiction of women seeking abortions, which also applauded Saskatoon doctors for restricting access to abortion services.
"Pro-life feminists have ... come to see abortion as part of a male agenda to have women more sexually available," said the controversial MP in an anti-abortion news release sent out Nov. 20.


Vellacott just this week had to apologize for a flyer wrongly accusing Nova Scotia NDP MP Peter Stoffer of supporting the long-gun registry.
Nova Scotia Liberal MP Scott Brison said Keddy's remarks reflect the kind of mean-spirited attitude that Canadians have come to expect from the Conservative government.


"This is from a Conservative party under Stephen Harper that has referred to Atlantic Canadians as being defeatist," he told reporters.
"This Conservative party has a deep vein of meanness to it. It's a party that kicks people when they are down," he said.


Winnipeg Liberal MP Anita Neville said Vellacott has proven time and again that he has a "very right-wing, somewhat Neanderthal agenda."
"It's an insult to women in this country," Neville said. "It gives me great fear should they ever have a majority government," she told reporters.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...p-derides-jobless-as-no-good-bastards#article

Sigh. What possesses a politician to get up and call unemployed "no-good bastards" in the midst of an economic downturn with jobs being lost. It's a rotten thing to say at the best of times. So what's the verdict?

Stupid?
Mean?
Ideologically entrenched?
All of the above?
Something else?

 

[Ken Morgan]

Stupid.

 

[shesulsa]

Gordon,

To control another person, you take something away from them based on the pyramid of needs. Most people in this world are not self-actualized, so it's rather easy to reduce large portions of the population to the "need for belonging" level. This is achieved by giving voice to nagging thoughts and bullying a weaker target. It is a tactic used by US Conservatives - quite effectively, in fact.

What they are doing is inciting hatred, separatism and classism and since the vast majority will predictably and psychologically side with the Bully, these men will most likely become quite popular if they aren't already.

So my answer, given your choices, would be "something else."

 

[Ken Morgan]

Don’t make it more then what it is. These guys are probably not the brightest bulbs on the block, because they are Conservative, means nothing. Gaffs like this come from all the parties, the BQ being the biggest culprit.

There is no underlying agenda here to subjugate the lower classes. There is no conspiracy.

 

[shesulsa]

Don’t make it more then what it is. These guys are probably not the brightest bulbs on the block, because they are Conservative, means nothing. Gaffs like this come from all the parties, the BQ being the biggest culprit.

There is no underlying agenda here to subjugate the lower classes. There is no conspiracy.

That's what they all say.

 

[Ken Morgan]

That's what they all say.

 

[shesulsa]

Okay. Don't pay any attention to the conservative nightmare inflicted upon the US people by the conservative party for the past few decades. Rush Limbaugh is a pauper as are his conservative cohorts because nobody likes them.

And don't read "How to Get People to Do What You Want" or acknowledge the science/art of interrogation. Doesn't matter. It's all bunk. No one in government uses these tactics to increase popularity. Nope. Not gonna happen.

:shrug:

 

[Ken Morgan]

Canadian conservative and American Conservatives are alike in name only. As an American how can you judge a political party north of the boarder based on name only? How well do you know the people involved?

I’ve been a card carrying member if the CPC and the PC parties for 30 years. I have had meetings in the headquarters, I have had cabinet ministers in my car, I have had coffee with MP’s and Senators, I have administration people as friends, and I have yet to see some huge conspiracy.

 

[celtic_crippler]

The Elite are not confined by international borders. They exist in Canada as well.

Yet, even though they routinely show their true colors they somehow manage to maintain their positions in office. Boggles the mind. You do vote in Canada, right?

The ...
VOTE AN INCUMBANT OUT CAMPAIGN
...isn't confined by international borders either. If you're allowed to vote in your country, then why haven't you fired the real bastards yet?

 

[shesulsa]

Canadian conservative and American Conservatives are alike in name only. As an American how can you judge a political party north of the boarder based on name only? How well do you know the people involved?

I’ve been a card carrying member if the CPC and the PC parties for 30 years. I have had meetings in the headquarters, I have had cabinet ministers in my car, I have had coffee with MP’s and Senators, I have administration people as friends, and I have yet to see some huge conspiracy.

If it walks like a duck (jobless are no-good bastards) and talks like a duck (women who get abortions are loose) it's quite likely ... a duck.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Gordon,

...

What they are doing is inciting hatred, separatism and classism and since the vast majority will predictably and psychologically side with the Bully, these men will most likely become quite popular if they aren't already.

So my answer, given your choices, would be "something else."

Your thoughtful analysis is appreciated. I tend to agree; however, what I'm getting at -- or seeking feedback on -- is the blatant viciousness of the commentary. I've heard rhetoric where people professing to conservatism decorate their dislike for the poor with the trappings of social science. The disingenuous interesting in breaking cycles of poverty and dependency, which, if anything, would be far more costly than the welfare state itself.

I do think your bully analogy is fairly apt; although, on a national level, I don't see a majority of Canadians as siding with this commentary. A majority of Canadians -- save for an elite few -- know exactly what a majority of Americans know. They friends and neighbours, or they themselves, are losing their jobs.

It's in that context that I find the comment invidious.

 

[shesulsa]

Your thoughtful analysis is appreciated. I tend to agree; however, what I'm getting at -- or seeking feedback on -- is the blatant viciousness of the commentary. I've heard rhetoric where people professing to conservatism decorate their dislike for the poor with the trappings of social science. The disingenuous interesting in breaking cycles of poverty and dependency, which, if anything, would be far more costly than the welfare state itself.

I do think your bully analogy is fairly apt; although, on a national level, I don't see a majority of Canadians as siding with this commentary. A majority of Canadians -- save for an elite few -- know exactly what a majority of Americans know. They friends and neighbours, or they themselves, are losing their jobs.

It's in that context that I find the comment invidious.

Invidious it is, to be sure (thank you for inciting my morning brain exercise).

I can't pretend to be as aware of Canadian politics as it appears many Canadians are of US politics. It would seem that the general social consciousness is higher in Candada, though only (via my admitted, extremely limited awareness) because of the vast social programs available to her peoples.

Though, with as many folk in the US who know people with no job or who are dealing with the enormity of medical bills following serious injury or illness or who have seen people collapse in ER waiting rooms only to be ignored by staff because the infirm was clearly homeless and quite likely uninsured, one would think conservative politics to be a thing of the past here. I wish I could report it were the case.

I can't know what is in your political future and can't imagine these men would retain their positions given such speech. I suppose it won't be looked upon as hate speech by many given it is not directed at a protected subsection of the populace. But statements like this are generally made by politicians to pick a fight.

I will digress from this point as I'm not qualified to discuss Canadian politics. Thanks for your indulgence.

 

[Carol]

Is it only an issue when conservatives say something like this? The Tory MPs said they were "good for nothing" yet these quotes - while not using verbage that is as harsh - still indicates the jobless are highly undesirable.

...the people who have been let go were not among the top-tier employees.

“There is a stigma with people who have been laid off, with good reason or not,’’

Ginger Gregory, the global head of human resources for pharmaceutical company Novartis said Pfizer’s recent announcement that it is closing six research facilities means there will be more talent on the market. But, she said, they won’t necessarily be the employees that Novartis, which has 1,659 employees in Cambridge, wants to scoop up.

http://www.boston.com/business/arti...nemployment_skilled_jobs_hard_to_fill/?page=2

 

[Gordon Nore]

Canadian conservative and American Conservatives are alike in name only. As an American how can you judge a political party north of the boarder based on name only? How well do you know the people involved?

I’ve been a card carrying member if the CPC and the PC parties for 30 years. I have had meetings in the headquarters, I have had cabinet ministers in my car, I have had coffee with MP’s and Senators, I have administration people as friends, and I have yet to see some huge conspiracy.

I think Shelusa was offering an opinion that -- in itself -- was not a wholesale attack on conservatism, but a reasonable analysis of strategies employed by the more hardcore. I hold forth on American issues all the time, so in putting up a Canadian topic in The Study, my expectation is that anyone can and will respond.

You are right -- US and Canadian conservatives are quite different for the most part. In much the same way as what many Americans see as liberal/left, I see as centrist. Notably, the Canadian conservative movement over the last twenty years has undergone a period of splinter, followed by some reformation.

I think the remarks cited in the article -- in particular about the jobless -- rekindled for me what I see as the ugliness of the Mike Harris Progressive Conservative gov't in Ontario (1995-2002/3). Harris, you'll recall was even spurned by Jean Charest, the federal Tory leader whose party fortunes dwindled to two seats -- Charest wouldn't touch Harris with a barge pole. Then there was Alberta's Ralph Klein, who dropped in on a shelter for homeless men, quite drunk, and berated them.

So what I see, periodically, are these junkyard dogs emerging from the right, who whip the middle class into a frenzy about how they're getting screwed by the poor. You mentioned your affiliations with the Progress Conservative Party and the Conservative Party of Canada. I noticed you mentioned no relations with the Reform or Reform Alliance, from whence I think some of the meaner guys emerge.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Correct Gordon. Ex PCer, never Alliance/Reform.

Look I’ve had this discussion before many times, most people are centre in the political spectrum. Then you get the nuts on either end. These are the guys who get all the attention, this is where the two guys come from.

All the parties have them, not just the more right leaning parties, they exist everywhere.

I’m an atheist, yet I will defend a religious persons right to their religion. I have meet some NDPer’s who are rabidly anti Christian and belittle Christians for their religion, they never do that to Muslims or Sikhs or Jews. I have experienced blatant lies told to the liberals ground troops, its really scary the **** that goes on that never becomes news.

I don’t believe in conspiracies, people just are not that competent.

 

[Gordon Nore]

Correct Gordon. Ex PCer, never Alliance/Reform.

Good to know. Those guys really creep me out. BTW, to our American friends and those around the world, "PC" is for the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada.

Look I’ve had this discussion before many times, most people are centre in the political spectrum. Then you get the nuts on either end. These are the guys who get all the attention, this is where the two guys come from.

Agreed. My thing is that these extremists pop up when times are down and too many sheeple take the bait. When Harris got in, my parents -- both retired public sector workers -- voted for the guy, who would later throw tens of thousands of public sector workers out on the street, me and the missus included. They had bought into the notion that our welfare woes would be remedied by throwing workers off the tax rolls.

All the parties have them, not just the more right leaning parties, they exist everywhere.

True. Whoever they are, they can do a lot of damage. Bear in mind: I vote NDP, so I've seen only one win in thirty years of voting in Ontario and federal elections.As an educator, I'm still looking at the consequences of the Mike Harris government every day, even though six years have passed. Flip side of that is that the McGuinty Liberals have not done nearly enough to reverse the damage.

I’m an atheist, yet I will defend a religious persons right to their religion. I have meet some NDPer’s who are rabidly anti Christian and belittle Christians for their religion, they never do that to Muslims or Sikhs or Jews. I have experienced blatant lies told to the liberals ground troops, its really scary the **** that goes on that never becomes news.

That's a very good point. I'm agnostic myself, but I'm not a recruiter to my cause. I don't like the callous way the faithful have been lumped together with a handful of brain- and heart-dead haters.

I don’t believe in conspiracies, people just are not that competent.

:lfao:
That line is going into my memoir.

 

[Gordon Nore]

If it walks like a duck (jobless are no-good bastards) and talks like a duck (women who get abortions are loose) it's quite likely ... a duck.

In posting I was more focused on the first remark, about jobless people than the latter. The abortion comments are off the hook:

"Pro-life feminists have ... come to see abortion as part of a male agenda to have women more sexually available," said the controversial MP in an anti-abortion news release sent out Nov. 20.

On what planet does this happen? I believe men have historically plied women with liquor to have their way, not abortion rights.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Good to know. Those guys really creep me out. BTW, to our American friends and those around the world, "PC" is for the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada.



Agreed. My thing is that these extremists pop up when times are down and too many sheeple take the bait. When Harris got in, my parents -- both retired public sector workers -- voted for the guy, who would later throw tens of thousands of public sector workers out on the street, me and the missus included. They had bought into the notion that our welfare woes would be remedied by throwing workers off the tax rolls.



True. Whoever they are, they can do a lot of damage. Bear in mind: I vote NDP, so I've seen only one win in thirty years of voting in Ontario and federal elections.As an educator, I'm still looking at the consequences of the Mike Harris government every day, even though six years have passed. Flip side of that is that the McGuinty Liberals have not done nearly enough to reverse the damage.



That's a very good point. I'm agnostic myself, but I'm not a recruiter to my cause. I don't like the callous way the faithful have been lumped together with a handful of brain- and heart-dead haters.



:lfao:
That line is going into my memoir.

PM on the way

 

[CanuckMA]

On what planet does this happen? I believe men have historically plied women with liquor to have their way, not abortion rights.

Back when my people roamed the Middle Eastern desert, we plied women with a sheep. That way if she turned you down...

 

[Big Don]

If it walks like a duck (jobless are no-good bastards) and talks like a duck (women who get abortions are loose) it's quite likely ... a duck.

Uh, some of the jobless are no good bastards and some of the women who get abortions are loose.
Is it that is isn't true for all of them that you're pissed, or because it is true for some of them?