Too Intellectual????

[K-man]

You are being used as the infallible rock of truth.

Which I don't think you would endorse.

It's nice to know that some people appreciate me.

It helps balance out those who don't.

 

[drop bear]

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I really don't spend time on free sparring. I mostly only free sparred for my testing, and my current school has acceded to this since I have demonstrated I can handle myself. It's really not an issue for them the way it is for you here @ MT.

Ok in simplest terms. You are suggesting there is a flaw in matt Thorntons method. Which is fine.

But you are basing that evidence on a guy who has nothing to do with mat Thornton.

Have you ever seen those kung fu vs boxer videos. You are heading down that path.

 

[drop bear]

It's nice to know that some people appreciate me.

It helps balance out those who don't.

I train in an environment that comes with a bit of argey bargey.

 

[K-man]

You reckon, teaching Krav, I don't like a bit of argy bargy?

 

[Steve]

Ok in simplest terms. You are suggesting there is a flaw in matt Thorntons method. Which is fine.

But you are basing that evidence on a guy who has nothing to do with mat Thornton.

Have you ever seen those kung fu vs boxer videos. You are heading down that path.

This is the thing that's confusing me. Shooto is just making **** up and ascribing it to Matt Thornton. Crazytown.

 

[drop bear]

This is the thing that's confusing me. Shooto is just making **** up and ascribing it to Matt Thornton. Crazytown.

I don't know I never bothered to check. He just said some sort of mat Thornton method. I am like whatever. It is hard to get too clinical into his posts because I don't understand how he is getting to his conclusions.

 

[drop bear]

You reckon, teaching Krav, I don't like a bit of argy bargy?

Competition and conflict as a matter of course. I get the impression that you take dissent a bit personally and treat it as disrespect. Where for me it is a normal training setting.

Otherwise I haven't seen how you train so I am not sure at what level of argy bargy you engage in.

 

[Steve]

What's argy bargy? You guys talk funny...

 

[drop bear]

What's argy bargy? You guys talk funny...

Argy-bargy Define Argy-bargy at Dictionary.com

 

[ShotoNoob]

No they would be the people I don't dominate because they tend not to frequent places that actual fighting happens.

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Yeah, I try to avoid trouble also.

I know guys who are intellectual who would scoff at your thought process.

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I'm just a shotonoob. What'yed expect? I'm looking for a kangaroo smiley 'cause that's the kind of court your holdling....

It works like this. There are four of us standing around a guy holding a pen and we are discussing what would happen if he let go. And we are having an intellectual discussion about would it go up,down,left,or right. And at the end of the discussion we reach an impasse and walk off with the conclusion that we will never really know what happens.

When we could have just let go of the pen.

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Instead, I've drafted my own traditional karate training manual. Some has dissed it. The instructor at my 1st martial arts school was complimentary. At a local kung fu school, the branch manager dissed it. The owner & head master looked at it and overrode the branch manager sifu. The master isn't big on karate and told me so. He recognized the effort.
UNLIKE YOU.

Yes you argument is that sports method has these limitations. Are you sparring with someone who is successful at the sports method. Not just the guy in your dojo who is a bit emotional.

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The value of the senior-belt kickboxer vignette is that it is a training case study. It is exactly the sports vs. traditional karate contest in a nutshell.
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I threw it out there for some to think about, especially appropriate because at my current dojo I was met by precisely your kind of negative skepticism.
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Your answer was some logic-pen test? Huh? What happened to the fight-critique test? When you lost that one, you switched to a written test. Kinda bogus, but yes blog OK.
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And you're kinda following in line with the senior-belt a bit emotional. Sore loser.

 

[ShotoNoob]

This is the thing that's confusing me. Shooto is just making **** up and ascribing it to Matt Thornton. Crazytown.

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It's a blog... I'm relating his publicly stated presentations on YT. Oh, I'm not in your league... I get it....

 

[ShotoNoob]

Ok in simplest terms. You are suggesting there is a flaw in matt Thorntons method. Which is fine.

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An interesting dimension of that is that as i study Matt Thorton, his approach I've found some commonality with the traditional karate curriculum. Not on overall theory. But once you get to the actual training syllabus.[/quote]

But you are basing that evidence on a guy who has nothing to do with mat Thornton.

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As i said, you guys can keep the T's going. A quality response would be to speak to the issue. No one's commented meaningfully on my Rolles Gracie massive fail vid. Some ego resistance. How un-TMA.

Have you ever seen those kung fu vs boxer videos. You are heading down that path.

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No you're heading down that path. Again the quality of the practitioner, kinda left out a key variable. Also left out my statements regarding the developmental process for TMA vs. sports.
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Actually, the Matt Thorton Method, I wouldn't say it's flawed. For what he's after, it's in many ways very good. It's the claim by him that TMA theory is all BS. That's the divide.
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I like to see Steve make a critique of the Rolles Gracie KSW 31 KO vid, rather than make derogatory, unsupported statements. You know, the fight-critique test you lauded so heavily....

 

[ShotoNoob]

HERE'S THE OVERVIEW:
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tma > mma. yet MMA kicks a lot of TMA butt. Instead of a pen-test-word game, take a look at Matt Thorton, a dyed in the wool sports approach to highlight the issues.
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Interestingly, Connor McGregor who is doing very, very well in the UFC, I came across a source that says he trains or has trained under the Matt Thorton method. At Matt Thorton's SBG (Straight Blast Gym). Thorton has a chain of SBG's so it's reported.
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I like following CM and analyzing his success. He's up against an MMA legend, Jose Aldo, in July. Don't know what UFC off the top of my head. My opinion, I think CM is going to 'tool' Aldo.
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I also think it's going to be a test of a more thinking fighter (CM) vs. the Matt Thorton Strong Base MMA competitor (physicality & aggression), namely JA.
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Matt Thorton will favor a CM type fighter over a JA type fighter, so we have some agreement here.
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That if those of you can put down your-pen-word-tests & talk issues.....

 

[ShotoNoob]

...Have you ever seen those kung fu vs boxer videos. You are heading down that path.

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My stand is this. Kung fu > Karate > MMA > Boxing.
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within Kungfu styles, internal styles > external styles. Within karate, Okinawan styles > Japanese styles.
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In terms of ranking, the difficulty in training and achieving skill increases exponentially (for argument sake) or at least by a multiplier as you move from the lowest ranked art to the highest.
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EDIT: Ed Parker's american kenpo is somewhere between Kung fu and Okinawan karate, kenpos in general....

 

[drop bear]

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My stand is this. Kung fu > Karate > MMA > Boxing.
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within Kungfu styles, internal styles > external styles. Within karate, Okinawan styles > Japanese styles.
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In terms of ranking, the difficulty in training and achieving skill increases exponentially (for argument sake) or at least by a multiplier as you move from the lowest ranked art to the highest.

Well at least we are back to over intellectualizing. I have no idea how you got those rankings.

Ok I saw the Gracie fight. Dude ate a massive right hand. What point are you making off the back of that?

 

[ShotoNoob]

Well at least we are back to over intellectualizing. I have no idea how you got those rankings.

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it's a blog post. Yet based on principles....

Ok I saw the Gracie fight. Dude ate a massive right hand. What point are you making off the back of that?

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It's your turn to make the point............s.

 

[ShotoNoob]

MMA is Great for Reality Testing.
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IOW, I, shotonoob, have ruffled the feathers of the MT BJJ audience. Compare Rolles Gracie's KSW 31 oppponent's action compared to the mantra in this Gracie YT vid against a purported Kenpo stylist.

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The Gracie narrator says the striker is completely helpless against the Gracie grappler's gambit.
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TWO KEY TAKEAWAYS.
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Qualifier: Rolles Gracie, according to what I've read, is one of the least regarded re skill among the Gracies.
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1. The striker who KO'd Rolles was using standard MMA striking, not claiming some 'mystical' Kenpo street fighting expertise according the to Gracie opponent narrative in the vid. IOW, rudimentary striking.
2. Matt Thorton's formula for the generally successful MMA fighter proved out. Physicality & Aggression.
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I'll let the forum take it from there.....

 

[ShotoNoob]

Matt Thorton's Keystone MMA / Self Defense Style = BJJ.
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Matt refers to fighting styles as "delivery" systems. His core, what he build his style methodology around is BJJ.
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I'm starting to get the Matt Thorton lingo down.....

 

[ShotoNoob]

On Royler Gracie in the YT vid. I will say he's really fast coming in....

 

[Steve]

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It's a blog... I'm relating his publicly stated presentations on YT. Oh, I'm not in your league... I get it....

I think you're saying more about yourself than about Matt Thornton.