Too Ambitious!

[ToShinDoKa]

There's been something I've been considering in my training lately, and it has to do with ranking in our art, or any art for that matter, but in my case, To-Shin Do. First off, I'd like to say I find To-Shin Do's curriculum both extremely comprehensive, and at the same time 'very' challenging. I've never study an art before where I felt 'so sure' that what I know works! But that's not the issue.

The issue is when it comes to belt promotions...I suppose specifically for long distance students, but I think it can apply to some others. Some people, I've noticed, will perform and study a technique (in a class setting) up to either the testing period of 9 months or so, is over, and move on. If they don't (though it's not encouraged) I can imagine they may feel like they're not progressing. So they'll get to a stage of development where it 'looks' good to the instructor, it 'works' good on an 'all-to-cooperative' uke, and the result tricks themselves into 'believing' they not only understand but can 'apply' the technique in a high-stress, no-thought self defense situation.

Some may not see this as a problem, but for 'me personally' it is unacceptable. I, too often, get the opportunity to display my skill and know-how in 'very' soft and controlled manners that don't require me bludgeoning, breaking, or battering my 'uke', and they realize when something could have really 'hurt' if I'd been intent on following through. I must say, it's the extreme basics, that I can recall at any time and moment, not any special move. Ura ang Omote gyaku just 'happen', musha dori and muso dori are my 'best-est' friends and for some reason, my shako ken palm to the face is 'always' on target.

I pride myself with these minor accomplishments because I know they'll be with me for my entire life, while at the same time acknowledge there are MANY more techniques I've learned to get this crimson belt, that while my testers saw looked good, I still can't apply naturally as the aforementioned. The point in all of this is what are YOUR opinions on passing tests before the instructors 'keen' eyes (which your technique may be spotless), but not 'truly' having the basic maneuver internalized into your arsenal?

Do you think it's wiser to move on if you're fairly comfortable than training to it's instinctual?

How long do you think such a thing would take, on average (that is internalizing a technique)?

 

[jks9199]

There's been something I've been considering in my training lately, and it has to do with ranking in our art, or any art for that matter, but in my case, To-Shin Do. First off, I'd like to say I find To-Shin Do's curriculum both extremely comprehensive, and at the same time 'very' challenging. I've never study an art before where I felt 'so sure' that what I know works! But that's not the issue.

The issue is when it comes to belt promotions...I suppose specifically for long distance students, but I think it can apply to some others. Some people, I've noticed, will perform and study a technique (in a class setting) up to either the testing period of 9 months or so, is over, and move on. If they don't (though it's not encouraged) I can imagine they may feel like they're not progressing. So they'll get to a stage of development where it 'looks' good to the instructor, it 'works' good on an 'all-to-cooperative' uke, and the result tricks themselves into 'believing' they not only understand but can 'apply' the technique in a high-stress, no-thought self defense situation.

Some may not see this as a problem, but for 'me personally' it is unacceptable. I, too often, get the opportunity to display my skill and know-how in 'very' soft and controlled manners that don't require me bludgeoning, breaking, or battering my 'uke', and they realize when something could have really 'hurt' if I'd been intent on following through. I must say, it's the extreme basics, that I can recall at any time and moment, not any special move. Ura ang Omote gyaku just 'happen', musha dori and muso dori are my 'best-est' friends and for some reason, my shako ken palm to the face is 'always' on target.

I pride myself with these minor accomplishments because I know they'll be with me for my entire life, while at the same time acknowledge there are MANY more techniques I've learned to get this crimson belt, that while my testers saw looked good, I still can't apply naturally as the aforementioned. The point in all of this is what are YOUR opinions on passing tests before the instructors 'keen' eyes (which your technique may be spotless), but not 'truly' having the basic maneuver internalized into your arsenal?

Do you think it's wiser to move on if you're fairly comfortable than training to it's instinctual?

How long do you think such a thing would take, on average (that is internalizing a technique)?

"Moving on" should almost always include some "looking back."

When you learn a new skill or principle (especially principles!), you have to stop, look backwards, and see where that fits in your previous material, as well as assess how to apply it as you learn new material. Let me try to give an example to help clarify this; it's kind of a tricky concept. I learned a particular footwork principle that I call "heel drop" after I'd been training for a while. I'd learned numerous techniques, a couple of forms, and more. So... I had to go back, and start by applying heel drop to our most basic punching drill, blocking drill, form, and each technique. Sometimes, that meant learning that it didn't really fit (rarely, though, since it's a pretty key technique).

A review of fundamentals is ALWAYS beneficial... though you also have to look ahead, too!

 

[exile]

"Moving on" should almost always include some "looking back."
...A review of fundamentals is ALWAYS beneficial... though you also have to look ahead, too!

I agree with jks on this, and still more generally, I think your question is really about the presentation/performance aspect of any MA as vs. the unthinking/reflexive application of that art's techs in a novel situation. Drilling techniques so they look good and smooth with a cooperative partner is useful to give you a feel for the linkage among the parts. But for real application use, you need to train very realistically and in a rough and ready way, with noncompliant training partners. Once you learn the techs under those circumstances, you really know them...

 

[bydand]

ToShinDoKa, while we may have gotten off to a rather rough start here on the forums (just going back to re-read some of the old threads) , I have to say this is a great thread. I agree that one HAS to go back and work on old material, if not it is like learning those dates back in history class and then forgetting them once the test is over (quick importance of 476AD and 1453 AD! Didn't think so ). It would be difficult being a long distance student because of the lack of immediate feedback from an Instructor, hats off for being able to stick with it and not getting frustrated. I know that the school I am in is VERY, VERY hard to get rank in, because we tend to like the response to be almost automatic to the action. There are several solid blues who have been there every time the door is open for the last 2 1/2 years and are quite good. They are still that rank because they don't feel they have got it quite right yet. Personally I am still a mid level Kyu rank after getting my blue/white belt in 1996 in To-Shin Do, and don't foresee a BB for at least another 6 or 8 years.

I think if you display what the Instructors are looking for, you should get the ranking. I also think that we tend to rush some of the lower ranks on average, not because the person doesn't know the material, but because from personal experience, it comes easier later on if you have that real solid foundation to build upon that comes naturally. By the way, most of the techniques you call your best friends are some of my old stand-byes as well. They just come out and wa-la without thinking the job is done . The playlist has grown over the years (as it should) but you generally use those ones that just "feel" right sometimes. I agree with you that sometimes we move on to new stuff too soon, and forget to keep practicing the "old, boring" stuff until it is second nature.

As to the time frame to belts, I really have no indication other than the 2 schools I have been involved with the most over the years. The shortest time to BB that I know of was 8 years, average up here is 10 to 12. Solid Blue - 2 to 2 1/2 years, Solid red 3 - 4, Solid green 5 - 6, and solid brown 7- 9. Like I said though, I really feel this area is a MAJOR exception to the average time for the art.

Good Luck in continuing your training and I hope to run across you at a seminar some time. Remember: March 1st and 2nd, Discovery 2008 is coming up in Portland, Maine and it is always a great time and some great Instructors are there. Usually a lot smaller than some of the other big seminars so there is always lots of personal 1 on 1 with the Instructors. It generally is the only one I can make it to due to having a CRAZY schedule and 4 kids.

 

[newtothe dark]

Something one of my teachers used to say is that a circle is perfect because as it ends then it must begin again.