Toes pointing inward

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by callMeHawkEye, Dec 28, 2017.

  1. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    Yeah I agree with most of this.
    As to 15 degrees...??? I don't know and don't believe it is of much importance as to what the degrees are. My instructors never used a protractor to measure. We tend to pivot the feet inward to the point of having outer edge of the foot pointing straight ahead. The inner edge then projects the sides of a triangle. The knees are bent to the point the distance between them are approx. 2 fists apart.
    I am assuming those that use the more intense pigeon toed stance with the knees squeezed in as KPM describes are doing so more as an 'over training' in the beginning stages and they use a positioning much closer to natural in the more advanced stages.
     
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  2. wckf92

    wckf92 Master Black Belt

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    hahaha. Mine didn't either. Good point Danny T!

    Yep. Exactly.
     
  3. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When your opponent sweeps your leg, you can either lift up your leg to let the sweeping leg to pass under your leg, or turn your foot outward and use your shin bone to deal with it. If you have already turn your toes inward, you will need to turn your toes extra angle. Sometime you don't have that much time. This is why most of the MA stance have leading foot pointing forward. This way whether you want to move inward to bite on your opponent's leg (for offense), or move outward to deal with your opponent's foot sweep (for defense), you can respond quickly.
     
  4. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    By the description Danny just gave, their toes are pointed about the same angle (outside of the foot straight) as most NGA practitioners' front foot in a hanmi stance. That small distance doesn't really change timing.
     
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  5. Vajramusti

    Vajramusti Master Black Belt

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  6. Vajramusti

    Vajramusti Master Black Belt

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    Sanchin?Floating Kuas? Sic?
     
  7. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Sanchin kata and “testing” in uechi ryu Karate. Other karate styles do the kata differently, such as closed hands, turns vs straight forward and backward, etc. While there are those differences, the principles of the kata and the stance itself are pretty consistent in most schools that do Sanchin.

     
  8. KPM

    KPM Senior Master

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    Don't know about Sanchin. But the idea of a "floating Kua" is not taught in HKM lineage. So I wouldn't expect you to know anything about it.
     
  9. geezer

    geezer Grandmaster

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    Those terms aren't used in my lineage either, and I don't think I've heard them used in Yip Man WC in general.

    On the other hand, as we advance in my lineage, we do seek to develop "springy energy" or elasticity, which eventually extends from the arms, through the core, to the stance and steps. And the other way around as well. An elastic, "springy" core that can flex and yield then spring back to release power... it's a very simple idea that doesn't sound unlike the "floating kua" as I've heard it explained by you and others such as Alan Orr on his videos.
     
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  10. cwk

    cwk Blue Belt

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    I was never taught to turn the toes right in or squeeze the knees. Like what Danny T said, we turn them just enough so that the outside of the foot is pointing straight forward. I sink and open the kua and align my hip, knee,ankle and foot in a natural way. No tilting of the pelvis, I use relaxation and correct breathing to open and relax the lower back. I don’t start from bending at the knees either (which I see on YouTube often). Instead I relax and release tension throughout my body and let my knees move naturally along with everything else.
     
  11. Bino TWT

    Bino TWT Green Belt

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  12. KabutoKouji

    KabutoKouji Green Belt

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    It is interesting that Karate calls it the Sanchin stance, as it is the basic stance in the White Crane we practice. We are told the qua is closed in order to guard the groin easily, but also that in contrary to what the OP said, locking the qua like that enables the rotation of the torse easier than with it open.

    I think it's a bit hard to get used to, but certainly when I conciously locked like that when we were doing fa jin training, it did seem to enable me to rotate/whip faster a bit, though I did feel (but this is probably because I'm not 'relaxed' in it/used to it yet) that I found it harder to bring the sine wave all the way up from my feet when it was locked.
     
  13. KabutoKouji

    KabutoKouji Green Belt

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    Also in White Crane we would never tilt the torso quite as far back, I believe we would go back a stance.
     
  14. JR 137

    JR 137 Senior Master

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    Most of Okinawan karate comes from CMA, and White Crane is allegedly a big part of it. Sanchin kata came from China. Here’s an interesting video of the variations of Sanchin, Chinese and Okinawan, side by side...



    Goju Ryu’s Tensho kata makes extensive use of the Sanchin stance as well. Goju’s founder (Chojun Miyagi) allegedly developed the kata from what he learned in White Crane in China (Fujian White Crane?).
     
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  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I think I will stick to toes in line with the knee.
     
  16. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Agree! The best fighting stance is a stance that you can spring from it. The direction of your spring is the direction that your toes is pointing to. This is why your leading leg toes should always point toward your opponent.
     
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  17. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    My toes don't line up with my knee. My big toes used to, but even they don't now.
     
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  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour Sr. Grandmaster

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    I agree, except that I'd say it's the knees that point the direction for some folks.
     
  19. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    What kind of stance are you using? I can't find a stance that knee and toes are pointing toward different directions.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018
  20. KabutoKouji

    KabutoKouji Green Belt

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    yeah I love that video - the bits which are recognisable from the White Crane form we do (our's is 'Ancestral' or 'Shaking' Crane I think (not Fujian) but it still seems very similar) are mainly thes two - there is a sorta chamber movement before the slightly uppercutty punch which I do not really see in any of the Sanchins though. So the pattern mainly consists of this:

    [​IMG]

    followed by this (though ours is more of a strike to the lower ribs area):

    [​IMG]

    in a four directional (cross shaped) pattern.

    There is much more 'triangle body' though (as in twisting the torso), and obviousy it moves a lot faster and is more emm 'flowy'. There is supposed to be a lot of 'turtle back' like the Okinawan guy whose topless, but I think it is only supposed to be during 'chamber' positions, as the fa jin extends the chest is supposed to 'open'.

    Tensho does seem very Crane too - this bit in particular is in our pattern:

    [​IMG]

    however, our bottom hand would be facing inward. This is also used when training in one of our stances which is kicked from. I'm not sure but I think I have seen a pattern with the same position and with the hands the same way as us in what I think was an Okinawan pattern that 'Karate By' Jesse Enkamp had in one of his videos.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2018

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