Grey Eyed Bandit
Master of Arts
You don't punch as much as you move into kamae.
To Shin Do Video Clip on Youtube!
- Thread starter Brian R. VanCise
- Start date
You don't punch as much as you move into kamae.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #62
To kind of explain what Nimravus said, you get your arm out there. If it hits, great. If it does not, you have it closer to the other guy and flow into the next move. Against a punch that pulls back it may not connect. But there are other things to do from there if it does not connect.
Just to dig into that a bit deeper... It doesn't sound much different from "blocks" in my system; we move off the line of attack, and replace the target with a block. A block is a strike against the incoming attack -- but if the movement has taken you to where there's no contact, that's just how it sometimes happens... Am I following this rightly?
After you're off the line -- you have lots of options about how to deal with the attack.
Sort of. based on what I understand of other arts that are designed for unarmed fighting, the block is the purpose of the movement, where what I think Don and Nimravus were explaining is in BBT, moving to the safe spot is the purpose, not the block. The strike or block is a bonus if it makes contact but it is more about the tactics not the technique, as I understand things.
So it's more that you step off the line/avoid the attack, and the stance you end up in happens to contain protective positions that can be blocks? Where I step off the line, then add a block.
(Gee... this type of thing gets hard to write!)
Yes and there is more to it, but that is a good start.
Yes, it is like trying to describe the color red to a blind person or to describe hot to someone who has no feeling.
Anti-hero Zero
White Belt
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Thank you Paul, for having the seemingly only informed response to this video.
I'm no ninjutsu expert. I do not in any capacity represent any high ranking ninjutsu teachers, especially not Steven Hayes and company. However, I have met Steven Hayes once, and I do know one of the people in this video. Also, I've trained in toshindo, bujinkan, and jinenkan from various instructors on and off for the last 16 years. Lastly, I have also been a bouncer in a nightclub for a year and have put my ninjutsu teaching to test in real physical confrontations.
Personally, I found my ninjutsu training to be invaluable in resolving any physical confrontation using the absolute least amount of force possible. I primarily relied on pain compliance, or techniques that do not result in the breaking of bones or general maiming of drunkards. Ura and omoto gyaku can be performed very effectively in controlled and discrete techniques. I was much smaller than 80% of anyone I ever "escorted" out of the club where I worked, and I never permantely injured anyone.
As for how Steven Hayes runs his school... go train with him before offering up criticism. Infact, I wholeheartedly suggest you disregard my post because I don't have 25+ years of reputable martial arts training. I'm sincerely not anti or pro Steven Hayes, I'm simply a proponent of "informed" criticism.
-AH
Zachattack
White Belt
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I'm also a TSD practicioner, although relatively new to the art (I've only been around for a year.) However, I am curious who you studied under.
In terms of the forum, at least in our school (under Hayes' senior student John Poliquin) we are taught specifically how to get the law on our side during a conflict, such as how to look helpless during subtle technique, how to make any witness nearby know who is the attacker, etc. The self defense laws vary from state to state, but I know that here in Maine they are a fairly loose set of laws. Getting sued, however, would be a different story. You can get sued for anything nowadays.
We are trained to possess the control necessary during a technique in order to have the choice of whether or not we want to hurt the opponent or not, or injure him to any degree. My suggestion is to check out Stephen Hayes' site http://www.skhquest.com/ and look to see if there are any instructors nearby.
don't know if that chap will hear you as he has not been online since that post...
SKB
Green Belt
Should I point out you guys are talking about a clip and the legal out come???? A real situation is not going to be just that clip? Also you guys answered the question of how to do it almost word for word the way some of us would of. Do you guys learn some other type of finish or ending when doing similar things? If a thug attacks me I'm going to make sure he is not a threat any more and if kicking him while he is down does this then I am going to kick him. Before you guys jump on me...... I just happen to be in Law Enforcement so I know where to draw the line on using force.
Johan D'hondt
White Belt
I agree on that... (doing what is needed to stay alive..)
but I don't get it.....Why there is all that fuss about that particular clip?
it is just a videoclip taken in a dojo, to show that you should be able to move freely when attacked and not get stuck in just one technique you may have had in mind when the problem started out, THIS IS A TRAINING ROOM, if you have to make mistakes....that is where you HAVE to make them. I believe that all the participants in that video are still alive!!! that means (to me) that they must be doing something right in "real live"...to stay out of trouble.
if you think you saw some mistakes in that video, GOOD, try them out, do them with AND without the mistakes to get a better understanding of the techniques seen.
if you think you saw some good stuff in that video, GREAT, try them out.
If you are not sure about what you've seen is Good or not, TRY IT OUT YOURSELF, see and feel what works and what does'nt, Tape yourself to see how you can perform those techniques...
about the legal issues....honestly, when you are in an alley being attacked, the first thing that comes into my mind is, DANGER, not LAW....so first things first, to be charged with manslaughter, you have to be alive first....
(if it can be done without violence, its even better of course)
my humble point of view on the topic so far..
Johan
but I don't get it.....Why there is all that fuss about that particular clip?
it is just a videoclip taken in a dojo, to show that you should be able to move freely when attacked and not get stuck in just one technique you may have had in mind when the problem started out, THIS IS A TRAINING ROOM, if you have to make mistakes....that is where you HAVE to make them. I believe that all the participants in that video are still alive!!! that means (to me) that they must be doing something right in "real live"...to stay out of trouble.
if you think you saw some mistakes in that video, GOOD, try them out, do them with AND without the mistakes to get a better understanding of the techniques seen.
if you think you saw some good stuff in that video, GREAT, try them out.
If you are not sure about what you've seen is Good or not, TRY IT OUT YOURSELF, see and feel what works and what does'nt, Tape yourself to see how you can perform those techniques...
about the legal issues....honestly, when you are in an alley being attacked, the first thing that comes into my mind is, DANGER, not LAW....so first things first, to be charged with manslaughter, you have to be alive first....
(if it can be done without violence, its even better of course)
my humble point of view on the topic so far..
Johan
ToShinDoKa
Green Belt
And nearly a year later, an lo', another reply. I have the unfortunate, but non-purposeful reputation for starting up dead threads. Fortunately this one was one, I feel was never argued on both sides.
I know this clip rather well, being I just tested on it. It's the hanbo defense to associate blue belts with using said weapon in a SELF DEFENSE SITUATION.
Why then, does Anshu continue to hit that attacker. The way Anshu teaches, is closely in accordance to many state's laws on self defense, specifically in my state. Anshu FIRST shows the minimum choice you can make when the attacker come in and you pop the knife from his or her hand. If they don't drop it, (unlikely), or if you miss, then the knife is still intending to cut you, and you must work towards control of the weapon and its wielder, and the overall neutralization of the threat, so you can escape.
In the case where Anshu was controlling the arm, it was simulating if the attacker was struggling to continue his attack, ground, or regain footing and chase a slower defender. Now some arts teach you to instantly rip out eyes, crush feet completely, smash into the solar plexus with your elbows, and shove nose cartilage into an attacker's own face... For the initial defense, THAT seems a bit much. Hit to the torso, to the ribs, or small pops to the face, tend to leave a few bruises, and make it harder to pursue, due to the pain. On thing they won't NECESSARILY do is maim the opponent for life, as some martial arts study.
Heck, when I was training with the American Bujinkan Dojo (a reputable organization mind you) we were taught to finish with a shuto to the Adam's Apple! Death, anyone?
-Scott T. Ealey
Proud To-Shin Do Practitioner
I know this clip rather well, being I just tested on it. It's the hanbo defense to associate blue belts with using said weapon in a SELF DEFENSE SITUATION.
Why then, does Anshu continue to hit that attacker. The way Anshu teaches, is closely in accordance to many state's laws on self defense, specifically in my state. Anshu FIRST shows the minimum choice you can make when the attacker come in and you pop the knife from his or her hand. If they don't drop it, (unlikely), or if you miss, then the knife is still intending to cut you, and you must work towards control of the weapon and its wielder, and the overall neutralization of the threat, so you can escape.
In the case where Anshu was controlling the arm, it was simulating if the attacker was struggling to continue his attack, ground, or regain footing and chase a slower defender. Now some arts teach you to instantly rip out eyes, crush feet completely, smash into the solar plexus with your elbows, and shove nose cartilage into an attacker's own face... For the initial defense, THAT seems a bit much. Hit to the torso, to the ribs, or small pops to the face, tend to leave a few bruises, and make it harder to pursue, due to the pain. On thing they won't NECESSARILY do is maim the opponent for life, as some martial arts study.
Heck, when I was training with the American Bujinkan Dojo (a reputable organization mind you) we were taught to finish with a shuto to the Adam's Apple! Death, anyone?
-Scott T. Ealey
Proud To-Shin Do Practitioner
