TKD vs. Kenpo

[hardheadjarhead]

Other kicks not found in TKD:

• Scoops
• Knife-Edge (as vs. side thrust kick, which we also to teach)
• Vertical Heel (reference Five Swords for those that know the extension or older Tracy version where it is included)
• Thrusting Sweep
• Inverted ball kick
• Twist Kick

But the big difference is the use of legs as weapons in ways other than kicking, e.g. for buckles, checks, sweeps, etc.

Still, the power, focus, balance, of TKD kicks ... and you just plain spend so many darn hours doing them, as compared to the average Kenpoist, means that their kicks MAY look better given an equivalent time in the Art.

Bad news, it takes Kenpo guys so long to promote between belts, we usually saw TKD guys get to black in the time it took us to get to blue or green. Problematic when it is an open tournament and you have a 7 year brown belt that can ... and does win the Black division, no other training than kenpo, either.

-Michael

Good point: The time difference in ranks and how it affects perceptions in skill. We see this in a lot of systems. At my school it'll take a person about five years to get to black. Across town, two years. It took two of my second dan women six years to go from second to third because they messed around. Other schools take a person from white to third in eight years.

The kicks "not found in TKD": Hard to say, not having witnessed them. We have something called a twist kick. Some of the others sound the same as the ones we do.

I'd ask people to note that TKD is hardly a monolith. If you have a bad school in your town and judge ALL TKD by what they do or fail to do, you're permitting yourself a narrow world view. Not all schools practice Olympic style fighting. Not all schools limit themselves to that. Granted...and I admit this freely...there are a LOT of cruddy TKD schools out there that lack balance in training. But there are also some very good ones that focus on pragmatic self defense.

Regards,


Steve

 

[TigerWoman]

The ball kick may have a slightly different version depending upon your kenpo lineage. I would say from my experience that if a person is laying on their side and you were perpindicular to the opponent a low line front snap ball kick could be applied to the ribs. Followed closely behind the ball would be a heel kick or commonly known to me as a shovel kick.

Vertical heel hook kick would be if the attacker was bent over as you were checking them down with some type of various check, maybe you were to raise your right leg directly up and vertical to deliver a heel kick to the solar plexus or any available target on the centerline of the attacker.

Knife edge side kick instead of a heel. It as a smaller weapon has a chance at striking a target due to profile or kicking out the side of a knee as you have a longer width wise weapon to minimize margin for error of missing the knee. Hopefully this helps and is similar to what Mr. Billing's ideas he was trying to give.
:asian:

The ball kick is a football kick (front, scoop) to us. The vertical heel is a axe kick to us. The knife edge is one we don't use on the knee. Again, thanks for the descriptions, TW

 

[Michael Billings]

Kenpo's Twist kick is not like any I have seen in TKD. I have one of Pat Burleson's Black Belts as a student also and the twist kick he know was not one I had ... so they are completely different kicks.

-Michael

 

[TigerWoman]

Kenpo's Twist kick is not like any I have seen in TKD. I have one of Pat Burleson's Black Belts as a student also and the twist kick he know was not one I had ... so they are completely different kicks.

-Michael

I don't or didn't (not sure about that one) have a conventional TKD instructor, he incorporates alot of other stuff into the curriculum. So I'm not sure what is really TKD originated or borrowed. Can you describe the twist kick you are talking about? TW

 

[Nightingale]

I picked up the chicken kicks around purple belt, I think, and jumping spinning crescents at blue or green.

 

[jfarnsworth]

The vertical heel is a axe kick to us.

How about the axe flipped over? Instead of the axe coming down the vertical heel hook comes upward.

 

[jfarnsworth]

I am surprised that none of the kenpo people mentioned the slicing knife edge kick.

Ah yes, the slicing knife edge, looping roundhouse kicks, one of my personal favorites is jumping in the air while landing in the close kneel w/the spiking action downward roundhouse.

 

[Sarah]

B: It's the Heart of the artist, not the art of the artist that matters.

I really like that comment.

I know nothing about Kenpo, don’t even know if we have it here in New Zealand, is it anything like Kempo?? I train in a TKD based art, haven’t trained in traditional TKD. I am also starting Jujitsu soon.

Saying that I can’t compare the two, what I do know is I have a passion for martial arts in general and everything that encompasses.

 

[Storm]

I know nothing about Kenpo, don’t even know if we have it here in New Zealand, .

There is LTKKA in Auckland (Kenpo) and NZKKA in Wellington. They both follow Larry Tatums curriculums.

 

[Sarah]

There is LTKKA in Auckland (Kenpo) and NZKKA in Wellington. They both follow Larry Tatums curriculums.

Thanks for that, I'll look into it, am interested to see what it is all about.

 

[8253]

personally i prefer Kenpo, as far as a fight between the two it just depends on whether it is on Monday or Tuesday that determines who wins or who looses.

 

[Han-Mi]

personally i prefer Kenpo, as far as a fight between the two it just depends on whether it is on Monday or Tuesday that determines who wins or who looses.

Good times

 

[bignick]

i've always enjoyed listening to a "art vs. art" debate...and i especially like it when the point comes up, what if two equally good fighters from each style fought...of course art 1 people are gonna say that art 1 will win and art 2 will stick with art 2...but if there were two equally matched fighters it it would be a draw...it goes back to the old adage of "33 1/3%"...which is your chances of surviving a fight to the death...if your opponent is better, you lose, you die, if you are better you win, your opponent dies, if you equally matched, you draw...which usually means you both die....moreover...someone that has studied either style any period of time should have a sense of when it's appropriate to use what they've learned...so they'd never fight each other on the street...and i haven't heard about any tkd/kenpo tournaments around...i think people should stop and think of what they will accomplish by bringing up a question like this...it's been discussed since the beginning of time...and my little speech won't put an end to it...but if there was one perfect art out there that had it all and worked for everybody...that's what we'd all be studying and there probably wouldn't be any other arts...

 

[Han-Mi]

but it's fun

 

[kenpo tiger]

Big Nick,

You don't say (and neither does your profile) in which art you train.
I agree with what you said about 'if there was one big art...' but - variety is what it's all about, isn't it? KT

 

[bignick]

sorry..i just joined a couple day ago to respond to a thread about grandmaster moo yong yun...like what i was seeing on the board so i decided to stay...and i've been to busy to really put anything in my profile...

If I had to describe myself...i would say tae kwon do is my core art, i have had the great fortune to work with great instructors and love it...but i also train very seriously in classical judo and jujitsu...

i know very little about kenpo, i know a person that trains in it because he also trains in judo/jujitsu...and what i've seen of him i'm very impressed...he's only a first dan, which i guess he's been for a long time because he's in the national gaurd and they decided to send him on a vacation to kuwait, he got back last year and has resumed training since...a lot of his technique excellent and he has great kime...but it's like they say...there are no superior martial arts...just superior martial artists...

 

[kenpo tiger]

I can't afford to talk. My profile says little or nothing about me, but you do know my art by my choice of screen name. I also offer information about my previous training in my posts, and am curious as to other people's ma experience. I've been told I ask a lot of questions, but that's how I learn!

Thanks for taking the time to explain. :asian: KT

 

[Hanzo04]

I have always wanted to do tkd my whole life and i finally got the opportunity when i was 18. now i am about to be a bb in about 8 months. but i quickly found that tkd was lacking significant hand strikes. and that's why so many taekwondoist switch to kenpo. i believe you need fast hands for fast kicks. that's why i'm also taking kenpo-to develop good hand strikes. kicks aren't enough to be a complete matial artist.

as for the two arts going head to head, it really depends on the practitioners. my tkd instructor is extremely fast with his kicks and he also holds a bbelt in hapkido which is strictly self-defense. so for now i would have to go with tkd since all th instructors at TMA know hapkido and TKD. i don't know to many kenpoist.