TKD, Karate, Rising Block (High Block) Concept and Theory Testing lab

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by JowGaWolf, Nov 3, 2018.

  1. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    When you use your raising block to block my forearm, since my elbow joint is free, I can bend my arm and drop my elbow on your chest. old saying said, "An elbow strike can be worse than 10 punches."

    In the following clip,

    - He throw a right "fake" punch.
    - His opponent uses right raising block.
    - He use left raising block to raise his opponent's raising block.
    - He then drop right elbow joint on his opponent's chest.

    His high center of gravity give him a chance to drop down with his elbow strike. His opponent's raising block helps him to set up his elbow strike nicely.


     
  2. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Yes definitely get the OK to share.
     
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  3. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    I use raising block as "combing the hair", or "separate hands", or "zombie guard".

     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2018
  4. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    That would be awesome. I learned all those blocks, and figured out a bunch of application myself, but not all of it. Assuming of course that he lets you
     
  5. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    A very good question. My answer is going to be somewhat general in an attempt to also provide an answer the OP's question. In the video's from the original post, I am pretty sure I have NEVER performed a high block EXACTLY how it is taught in practice and in forms while sparring or on the "streets". So everyone is now saying "why do it then"? The answer as I have learned it is to understand where the power comes from. The ritualized ways shown in the videos and much repetition teaches you where and how to make power. That doesn't mean you have to do the block exactly that way. Most often you are not going to have the time to do that. But you are learning how to use your body to make power and not be segmented and ineffective in your block. I guess I have forgotten how hard this concept is to wrap your head around.
    So to the question of height, it may not look much like a high block if the person blocking is much taller, but the motion and fundamentals should be the same.
     
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  6. dvcochran

    dvcochran Senior Master

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    Well yea, but I don't go around in a deep stance all the time.
     
  7. skribs

    skribs Senior Master

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    A lot of our drills start from a ready position or a shallow stance, we extend into a deep stance as we block and counter.
     
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  8. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Jacob uses it to clear his opponents lead arm as he blitzes in with reverse punch

    It’s one of his best entries
     
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  9. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Here is an example that your raising block may open yourself for an elbow striking.

     
  10. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    That one makes sense to me too.
     
  11. O'Malley

    O'Malley Green Belt

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    Reverse punch as in gyaku tsuki (straight punch with the rear hand) or as in uraken (backfist)?
     
  12. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I think I know how to perform it just like it's done in the form, but I need someone stronger than my wife to actually test it out on. My wife gave me some good insight on what may be actually happening and why the technique works as it shows in the form. I'll probably need some of you guys to help test it out to see if it works the same way for you. Right now I'm still trying to figure out in what situation I might find myself in that will result in someone grabbing my wrist.
     
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  13. CB Jones

    CB Jones Senior Master

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    Reverse punch as in gyaku tsuki (straight punch with the rear hand)
     
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  14. DaveB

    DaveB Master Black Belt

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    The second movement of the attack was a high block, so it's weakness is it's self?
     
  15. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If your opponent wants to raise his arm, you help him to raise even higher.

    Your high block will open yourself up. If you attack at that moment, you have just closed your opening. In other words, high block by itself is not good enough. But high block along with attack is a good idea.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2018
  16. Yokozuna514

    Yokozuna514 Purple Belt

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    Interesting topic and interesting read on the responses. From a Kyokushin karate perspective, we use the rising block like everyone else to protect the Jodan area of the body. Most of us have probably learned to use it against their instructors shinai although that is more for visualization purposes than practical usage. In an SD situation, against an attacker who is using a weapon like a stick or bat, the rising block can mean the difference between saving a dent to the noggan and well getting a dent in the noggan ;). Of course, it is not the best method to protect you from the dent but if you didn't have time to think and only had time to react, I would go with a broken arm before I went with a dent in the head. Again, it is a last ditch effort to protect your head in an SD application, so sticking around to fight after you had your arm broken (but saved your head) is not the best idea. Rising blocks can also be a reasonable counter for crescent kicks or Brazilian kicks but there are also better ways to block and evade those kinds of kicks.

    What I didn't see in any of the videos (generally you won't) or on any of the posts, is the proper kihon for the rising block. Some of the videos shown actually had technically bad examples of blocking (ie: The blocks weren't effectively covering the centre of the area or were just not well demonstrated). For a rising block to be strong, the body angle has to be in the correct position to support the arm firmly. The upper arm has to be in the correct position to not only protect the head but to provide a strong base to protect against downward forces. Lastly the lower arm has to be projected outward to intercept (ie: cut the distance) the strike or kick so that the block is NOT catching the strike at it's optimal power point. Intercepting the strike before the intended point will lessen the forces received.

    It is mostly used to defend against descending techniques but it isn't really recommended that you artificially lower your stance so that you can use it to defend against taller opponents. If you opponent happens to be taller and they happen to use descending attacks then this block could be appropriate but lowering your stance may not allow you to move as quickly as you could otherwise so I would not recommend that approach. The ability to use footwork to avoid strikes is much more valuable to me than putting up a super strong block (ie: force on force) but that is because I believe that the best defence against a strike is to not be there. If I had to be there, then a good firm block would be a choice if I didn't have enough time to parry the strike.
     
  17. DaveB

    DaveB Master Black Belt

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    That presumes that you are receiving the force with only the rising forearm.
    It further presumes that the name it was given was anything more than a generic way to identify a movement in a class full of beginners.
     
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  18. wab25

    wab25 Black Belt

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    I posted this part in another thread... but it applies here as well. Funakoshi taught that this technique was an arm break. You have caught the opponents arm, with your non-blocking hand, as you chamber that hand, your blocking hand breaks the elbow.

    (both quotes below are from Funakoshi in his book Karate-Do Kyohan)
    http://www.jka-slovenija.si/varovana/Prirocniki/Karate - do kyohan-1.pdf

    From Heian Shodan:
    Its also interesting that Funakoshi taught that knocking an attacking fist or foot out of the way, was an alternate application of this type of block. The striking block or Uchi-te is primarily to attack vital points as a strike.
    These days, everyone teaches that knocking the punching hand, or kicking foot out of the way, is the primary application. This is directly opposite of what Funakoshi taught.
     
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  19. Prostar

    Prostar Orange Belt

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    The series of videos is a good example of what I refer to as "The same thing, only different."

    I try to not get wrapped up in the minor variations.
     
  20. Never_A_Reflection

    Never_A_Reflection Blue Belt

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    I tend to use it mostly like the last example in Lionel's video, with the crossing arm trapping the opponent's arms as the "blocking" arm drives into their neck, or for limb control, as I show here:

    There are, of course, other ways to use it, but those are my go-to applications. As has been mentioned, it can work as a "last ditch" cover against an overhand swing. It works to get your arm over an opponent's arm at close range, so you can pin it under your armpit. Back when I still did point sparring, it worked relatively well as a cover while throwing a reverse punch from a lunge, since you're dropping levels, anyway, and you could use it to lift the opponent's lead arm a bit so you could sneak the punch in underneath. I still teach it to students who want to compete in point sparring, but I don't really use it, myself, these days.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2018
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