Thuggery Vs Martial arts (a youtube clip)

[dnovice]

...and the dominoes fall.
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side note:

A lot of people will just stand there when being screamed at thinking that this is the best way to de-escalate the situation, but sometimes this "inaction" can be taken as a non verbal challenge of dominance.

When I just stand there, I'm looking the person dead in the eye not even blinking. It isn't my intention to de-escalate the situation. My only purpose is to silence myself and be ready to strike instantly if need be. I'm taking in my surroundings observing what weapons i can use. Its kind of a calm before the storm. The moment he strikes me, or throws a punch I'll be on him.

This way, I'm calm and if i see the person will listen to reason I talk to them.

I think if you yell with him you are more likely to get sucker punched because part of your attention is focused on yelling with him. Just my two cents.

 

[myusername]

When I just stand there, I'm looking the person dead in the eye not even blinking. It isn't my intention to de-escalate the situation. My only purpose is to silence myself and be ready to strike instantly if need be. I'm taking in my surroundings observing what weapons i can use. Its kind of a calm before the storm. The moment he strikes me, or throws a punch I'll be on him.

This way, I'm calm and if i see the person will listen to reason I talk to them.

I think if you yell with him you are more likely to get sucker punched because part of your attention is focused on yelling with him. Just my two cents.

To a certain extent both approaches are correct. However, the emotionless silence and eye staring is actually posturing. Therefore, it is no different or morally superior than other forms of posturing. It is just your way of managing your adrenaline and preparing to fight and psyching out your opponent. Another person's way might be to puff themselves up and start shouting obscenities but they are both agressive actions (just one is quieter than the other).

That is just fine as posturing is just as valid a way of ending a conflict without violence than the verbal de-esculation. There are times when one approach is more appropriate than the other. However, I think on the whole when confronted with an angry person, not a mugger or surprise attacker, but more someone who has become angry with you through heated discussion or percieved slight/insult then I personally believe verbal de-esculation is more appropriate (initially!) than posturing.

Going all emotionless and coldly staring into some ones eyes at that point is a move on your part to take things to the next level. From that point onwards the angry party has no option but to engage in posturing of their own, fight you or back down. I totally disagree that by engaging the person in dialogue it opens you up to a sucker punch. It is possible and very wise to work any verbal de-esculation techniques from the fence position and with an awareness of when things should go to the next stage (be that posturing or striking). I personally would not use the yelling idea but would speak calmly conveying genuine remorse for the supposed insult.

 

[dnovice]

To a certain extent both approaches are correct. However, the emotionless silence and eye staring is actually posturing.

Could be. However, in my case whenever i've done that its usually never escalated.

Therefore, it is no different or morally superior than other forms of posturing. It is just your way of managing your adrenaline and preparing to fight and psyching out your opponent. Another person's way might be to puff themselves up and start shouting obscenities but they are both agressive actions (just one is quieter than the other).

true. i never said its morally superior. Rather it works pretty well for me sometimes. Its not the only thing i do. If i can talk reason to the person i would. But some people just don't listen. At that point the only thing left is either they punk out or they come at you either way you have to be ready.

Yelling can work well in a different situation. However, if you are yelling people around you might mistake you as being the person who started the fight (a third person perspective) so if you really injure your opponent you might not be able to claim self defense.

There are times when one approach is more appropriate than the other.

agreed.

However, I think on the whole when confronted with an angry person, not a mugger or surprise attacker, but more someone who has become angry with you through heated discussion or percieved slight/insult then I personally believe verbal de-esculation is more appropriate (initially!) than posturing.

haha. it would be quite weird, even creepy, to suddenly go quiet after having a heated discussion. I would never do that, and that is definitely not what the karate guy was doing.

Its more for people that wont listen to reason, at which point you just have to be ready to fight.

I personally would not use the yelling idea but would speak calmly conveying genuine remorse for the supposed insult.

you use a verbal means of de escalating situations until it becomes futile to do so.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

One of my instructors favourite things is to ask someone who is screaming at him etc ( it happens a lot he does the doors in Newcastle) a seemingly random question like what colours custard, what's your mums name or who won the football. He says it gives you that vital couple of seconds to distract so you can hit them, it also makes them open their mouths to speak therefore making a KO even more likely or at least a broken jaw lol!

Do I detect a devotee of The esteemed Mr. Thompson?

 

[MJS]

...and the dominoes fall.
------------------------------------------------------------------

side note:

A lot of people will just stand there when being screamed at thinking that this is the best way to de-escalate the situation, but sometimes this "inaction" can be taken as a non verbal challenge of dominance.

In my dojo we practice de-escalation drills by having someone yell at you as lond as possible and you matching their volume with the continuous use of the words "what do you want!?" over and over again slowly bringing the volume level down until the yelling becomes more subdued. What this does is force a person confronting you to a) match your voice and b) get into "thinking brain" which causes them to stop screaming and start talking more reasonable. All tghe while we are doing this we prepare for physical attack because once that fist rises or they rush us, the time for non-violence has passed.

Good points! While it may be good, depending on the situation to attempt to defuse it, by talking the person down or by saying nothing at all, a line needs to be drawn somewhere. Like I said, I give that guy in the original clip a ton of credit, because I highly doubt I'd have been able to contain myself that long. Letting him get that close, grabbing, pushing....nope, thats where I gotta draw the line.

I like the drill you do too!

 

[Aiki Lee]

Yes when de-escalating the situation one does need to be fully aware of the fact that you may be attacked without much warning.

The reason we start with matching their tone and volume is because when they are yelling at you, they may not hear what you are saying in a calm voice. I don't yell back at them angrily in the way they yell, but one needs to be heard and come off as being very serious and ready to go if the situation boils down to it.

 

[bowser666]

The law here says that most definitely the householder could have and in fact should have made the first strike. If you are in fear of your life or safety the law says its sensible to strike first. It would have been interesting to have heard the householders view on the situation.

Remember though, he could have always just gone back inside his house and called the police. It was a weird scenario to me anyways.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I often say random and bizarre things to people who are in a highly agitated state.......sometimes I act like i'm angry and upset at them for something that is bizarre and off the wall, and then they get confused as to why i'm mad at them......:whip:

I've done this for years.....i'm kind of famous for it among my colleagues.

 

[Tez3]

Remember though, he could have always just gone back inside his house and called the police. It was a weird scenario to me anyways.

Depends on where he lives! a lot of places like to sort things out themselves lol! someone could have set the bad guy up though as punishment for something. It also be why it was filmed remarkable well for a mobile phone! a nice bit of humiliation?