They are back!!!

[JowGaWolf]

So let people think what they want about whatever style, and they will underestimate if it comes to that

For me where I live, I don't want to be underestimated either because then I would be close to being perceived as a potential victim, an easy target. I always try to project a balance of not being weak, not being a threat, and not trying to be the tough guy in the room.

Don't go around broadcasting that you practice MA, and this is not an issue - at times when MA becomes needed, it is better a surprise.

It only matters what people think if you want them to think you are awesome.

I agree with this, so I don't going around broadcasting that I practice MA. I actually teach my son this as well because I don't need violent teens trying to size him up. I also don't see this as an issue from students who are from schools that are focused on self-defense. The schools that only care about the color of the belts tend to have students who brag about their MA achievement and many of those people don't actually have the fighting skills that match the color of their belts.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I went back to the op and showed the video to a few different groups of people . Some of these people studied some sort of martial art some did not. Not one of the 15 people I showed it to with the exception of one made it through watching the video.
All asked what the hell that crap was supposed to be. All expressed the opinion that things like they watched where part of the reason most people feel martial arts and people who claim to be black belts are like those who play softball or soccer ( just weekend hobbyists) .
The one person who made it all the way through said it was the best comedy they had seen in years and wanted to know if it was supposed to be a parody of Karate or if it was for real.
Why do I care because I love what I do and the effort people once put into the arts. The instructors for those in the video and the heads of whatever organizations they belong to should be taken behind a barn and horse whipped for allowing crap like that in the video to be called karate. Anyone not offend by that video should look at their own training and question what they feel a black belt is and how they feel a black belt should represent the art they study.
The opinion above is mine and mine alone and is no way the opinion of Martialtalk and it's owners or sponsors

 

[JowGaWolf]

Here's a few videos to put the OP video into perspective. Train correctly, train hard.

 

[tshadowchaser]

My utmost respect to those in the video above.

 

[ballen0351]

I went back to the op and showed the video to a few different groups of people . Some of these people studied some sort of martial art some did not. Not one of the 15 people I showed it to with the exception of one made it through watching the video.
All asked what the hell that crap was supposed to be. All expressed the opinion that things like they watched where part of the reason most people feel martial arts and people who claim to be black belts are like those who play softball or soccer ( just weekend hobbyists) .
The one person who made it all the way through said it was the best comedy they had seen in years and wanted to know if it was supposed to be a parody of Karate or if it was for real.
Why do I care because I love what I do and the effort people once put into the arts. The instructors for those in the video and the heads of whatever organizations they belong to should be taken behind a barn and horse whipped for allowing crap like that ie video to be called karate. Anyone not offend by that video should look at their own training and question what they feel a black belt is and how they feel a black belt should represent the art they study.
The opinion above is mine and mine alone and is no way the opinion of Martialtalk and it's owners or sponsors

You do realize most people training in Martial arts are weekend hobbiest right? There are very very few who will ever use what they learn in real life to defend themselves. What these guys do has zero impact on what you do. If you think it does that's is more your issue then theirs. To say their instructors should be whipped because they don't look like you is silly, and to say anyone not offended should look at themselves is nonsense I don't base my worth or value my training off of what other people do. Especially when I don't know them, don't train with them, have never met them. There are no "standards" or license for karate who are you to tell them they are not doing karate and more importantly to me why do you even care what they do. I find it even more sad your so worked up over it you sought out 15 people to help you make fun of them as if you base your self worth off showing your karate is "better"

 

[JowGaWolf]

You do realize most people training in Martial arts are weekend hobbiest right?

Not true.

There are very very few who will ever use what they learn in real life to defend themselves.

This is a good thing. No one goes to a gun range with the goal of missing the target just because they don't think they will ever have to shoot someone. Same thing with people who want to be able to use martial arts to protect themselves. They don't go there an mess around just because they don't think they will fight. They go there and learn how to fight just in case they actually have to fight one day.

I don't base my worth or value my training off of what other people do.

It not about how you base value on your training it's how other people base the value. If you wanted to open your own martial arts school then videos like this have a direct affect on how people see the value of your fighting system, that in turns hurts your ability to be a successful business. Not only that, the more of the nonsense that is out there, the less chance your fighting system has of surviving throughout time. So what other people think of your fighting system matters and how you represent your fighting system matters.

There are no "standards" or license for karate who are you to tell them they are not doing karate and more importantly to me why do you even care what they do.

I don't even take karate and I know this is wrong, because this is wrong for kung fu as well. There are standards and licenses for martial arts. This is recognized through lineage and the way that is works is that there is a panel of qualified teachers that will determine if you are of high enough quality to be a teacher yourself and to represent the fighting system in an honorable way. Lineage is a big thing in the martial arts world and you can easily pick out the frauds just by looking at the lineage. There is more to the tite of Sifu or Sensei than just knowing the forms / kata and neither title is given lightly. Although there are some people who give themselves that those titles without actually earning it through the correct channels.

 

[ballen0351]

in

Not true.

Lol ok,your probably right most people taking martial arts are kids

This is a good thing. No one goes to a gun range with the goal of missing the target just because they don't think they will ever have to shoot someone. Same thing with people who want to be able to use martial arts to protect themselves. They don't go there an mess around just because they don't think they will fight. They go there and learn how to fight just in case they actually have to fight one day.

And shocker some people don't train martial art for self defense at all. Some do it for exercise, some do it because it's fun, there are hundreds of reasons why someone trains

It not about how you base value on your training it's how other people base the value. If you wanted to open your own martial arts school then videos like this have a direct affect on how people see the value of your fighting system, that in turns hurts your ability to be a successful business. Not only that, the more of the nonsense that is out there, the less chance your fighting system has of surviving throughout time. So what other people think of your fighting system matters and how you represent your fighting system matters.

I don't give two flying sticks of butter what other people think about my style or system. I don't train for them I train for me. These has been bad martial arts schools as long as there have been good martial arts schools. A few videos on YouTube won't change that.

I don't even take karate and I know this is wrong, because this is wrong for kung fu as well. There are standards and licenses for martial arts.

Nonsense I can start a school tomorrow all I need is a permit from the county and a karate school is considered a health club by the state so I need a perit for a health club from the state. Then I can make up and teach anything I want. I can call it whatever I want and make it as off the wall silly as i want. If I have after school programs and great marketing Id make money

This is recognized through lineage and the way that is works is that there is a panel of qualified teachers that will determine if you are of high enough quality to be a teacher yourself and to represent the fighting system in an honorable way. Lineage is a big thing in the martial arts world and you can easily pick out the frauds just by looking at the lineage. There is more to the tite of Sifu or Sensei than just knowing the forms / kata and neither title is given lightly. Although there are some people who give themselves that those titles without actually earning it through the correct channels.

Nonsense do you think the soccer Mom looking for someplace to drop off little Johnny for a few hours after school cares about lineage? Most people look for the closest school and go.

 

[tshadowchaser]

rather than trying to explain what I see as Martial Arts vs sport arts and exercise classes vs supposed to be martial arts, I will just agree to disagree on what the video showed.
At no point was I trying to make fun of the people in that video nor did I show it to others to make fun of it rather I was looking for other opinions of what people observed and their thought on the video. To me the fact that most people can see no redeeming value in what was shown as far as being effective or that they feel it was nonsense should say much.
If the people in the video and their instructors are happy I'm happy for them but to call what they are doing a martial art is another story but it is also based on what one dose or has done in the arts.
So to each their own

 

[ballen0351]

rather than trying to explain what I see as Martial Arts vs sport arts and exercise classes vs supposed to be martial arts, I will just agree to disagree on what the video showed.
At no point was I trying to make fun of the people in that video nor did I show it to others to make fun of it rather I was looking for other opinions of what people observed and their thought on the video. To me the fact that most people can see no redeeming value in what was shown as far as being effective or that they feel it was nonsense should say much.
If the people in the video and their instructors are happy I'm happy for them but to call what they are doing a martial art is another story but it is also based on what one dose or has done in the arts.
So to each their own

Fair enough
So who gets to be the gate keeper on what is and isn't allowed to be called a martial art. If I want to do ballet and call it martial arts who really cares

 

[JowGaWolf]

Nonsense I can start a school tomorrow all I need is a permit from the county and a karate school is considered a health club by the state so I need a perit for a health club from the state. Then I can make up and teach anything I want. I can call it whatever I want and make it as off the wall silly as i want. If I have after school programs and great marketing Id make money

You should have said this statement as your first statement in this discussion. Yes you can do all of this, but all of that doesn't make you a martial arts school.

Nonsense do you think the soccer Mom looking for someplace to drop off little Johnny for a few hours after school cares about lineage? Most people look for the closest school and go.

• I didn't see kids in the OP video.
• Most martial art schools that teach real martial arts to kids don't run a babysitting service. If that child can't get with the program then that child is removed from the school because it interferes with the training of the kids who are there to learn real martial arts.
• If you only care about the exercise and not the martial arts then you can save money by taking a fitness kickboxing class, no belt, no testing fees, no uniform. Just exercise. It just makes more sense to spend money by taking a fitness class. As a matter of fact many martial arts schools have martial arts inspired fitness classes that are separate from their actual martial art class. Why waste money on the belt and uniform if you are only doing it for fitness?

If I only care about a baby sitter for my child an my child's fitness then this is what I'm looking for.

If I want my child to learn Martial arts then this is what I'm looking for

 

[ballen0351]

You should have said this statement as your first statement in this discussion. Yes you can do all of this, but all of that doesn't make you a martial arts school.

Really? Because all I need are some stickers on my window and poor "martial arts" is now written across the front of my dojo. It may not be a place you or I would train but again there are no rules or sanctioning body that issues a martial arts licesnse

• I didn't see kids in the OP video.

• 
  So 1 video and now you know everything about that school?
  

  [*]Most martial art schools that teach real martial arts to kids don't run a babysitting service. If that child can't get with the program then that child is removed from the school because it interferes with the training of the kids who are there to learn real martial arts.

  Most commercial martal arts school need to pay rent and know kids =$
  

  [*]If you only care about the exercise and not the martial arts then you can save money by taking a fitness kickboxing class, no belt, no testing fees, no uniform. Just exercise. It just makes more sense to spend money by taking a fitness class. As a matter of fact many martial arts schools have martial arts inspired fitness classes that are separate from their actual martial art class. Why waste money on the belt and uniform if you are only doing it for fitness?

So now you get to tell people how to spend their money? Stop dude pleanty of people train for all kinds of reasons that have nothing to so with self defense

If I only care about a baby sitter for my child an my child's fitness then this is what I'm looking for.

If I want my child to learn Martial arts then this is what I'm looking for

That's great but YOU are not everyone. I ran a martial arts program after school as an outreach program to keep kids doing something productive. It turned into a free babysitter for parents to drop off kids they could careless what I was teaching. My church runs a summer youth program. Parents that don't even believe in God drop off their kids just to get a free babysitter. I coach my son's football team several of the kids don't even want to play. They just get dropped off so the parents can have a break for 2 hours a night twice a week.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Fair enough
So who gets to be the gate keeper on what is and isn't allowed to be called a martial art. If I want to do ballet and call it martial arts who really cares

Statements like that are a perfect reason to care about lineage and if the teacher was appointed a teacher or is he/she a "self made" teacher.

 

[ballen0351]

Statements like that are a perfect reason to care about lineage and if the teacher was appointed a teacher or is he/she a "self made" teacher.

I agree I care about what I'm learning. When I was going full time to my Goju classes I drove almost 2 hours each way and passed several other places because they taught traditional Goju that I could trace back to the founder.
But I'm not the norm. Most people are not like you and I. We spend our free time on martial arts forums reading studying posting about martial arts. A vast majority of people that train dont. They look for the closest school or most convenient. There is nothing wrong with that its their time and their money. But you seem to think most people think of this as more then just a hobby and honestly it's not.
You care about lineage so do others on this forum but the general public not so much. Your worried about others thinking martial arts are a joke well I hate to break it too you but most adults already do. When I leave work and am running late and throw on gi pants in the locker room at work to get to class guys make jokes. These are guys that know I can fight and seek me out on calls as backupif they think it's going to get physical. It just is. Martial arts are viewed as a kids thing to most people

 

[JowGaWolf]

So 1 video and now you know everything about that school?

I know enough about martial arts know incorrect stances and why they are incorrect, incorrect side kicks and why they are incorrect and the damage that can happen because of incorrect kicking. So with that alone I don't need to know about school to know about incorrect movement.

Do you need to know about a driver or the school he learned from to know that driving on the wrong side of the road is incorrect?

Most commercial martal arts school need to pay rent and know kids =$

You can pay rent and make dollars without misleading people. If it's not a martial art then don't call it one. If you have a martial arts fitness class "kung fu fit" then you have to be straight forward with the person and let them know that "kung fu fit" is not a martial arts even though it uses some martial art exercises. Billy Blanks never tried to pass his Tae Bo kickboxing class as a martial art and he made millions.

So now you get to tell people how to spend their money? Stop dude pleanty of people train for all kinds of reasons that have nothing to so with self defense

People can spend money on whatever they want to spend their money on. My statement as a parent just simply pointed out logic in terms of what I look for and the fact that you saw so many kids in that fitness class means that other parents feel the same way. It just doesn't make sense for me to pay all of that money for belts and testing, when my child could be living it up in that fitness class doing things that the normal martial arts students aren't doing. It also shows in those kids faces that they aren't thinking about martial arts, they are just enjoying running around. But kids can't run around like that in a real martial arts class where other students are kicking and punching. The video with the kids running around don't call the video a martial arts video. They call it a children's fitness class.

It turned into a free babysitter for parents to drop off kids they could careless what I was teaching. My church runs a summer youth program. Parents that don't even believe in God drop off their kids just to get a free babysitter. I coach my son's football team several of the kids don't even want to play. They just get dropped off so the parents can have a break for 2 hours a night twice a week.

I worked with kids for more than 20 years and during that time I ran youth development centers, summer camps, museum tours, taught self-defense classes to inner city children, taught computer classes, and now I'm assisting in teaching kids get basic kung fu techniques such as stances correct. And every parent child that was involved in that care about the quality of instruction their child was getting. They wanted their children to learn something of value and to be safe while doing it.

 

[ballen0351]

I know enough about martial arts know incorrect stances and why they are incorrect, incorrect side kicks and why they are incorrect and the damage that can happen because of incorrect kicking. So with that alone I don't need to know about school to know about incorrect movement.

Do you need to know about a driver or the school he learned from to know that driving on the wrong side of the road is incorrect?

What's that have to do with kids? You said you saw no kids in the OP

You can pay rent and make dollars without misleading people. If it's not a martial art then don't call it one. If you have a martial arts fitness class "kung fu fit" then you have to be straight forward with the person and let them know that "kung fu fit" is not a martial arts even though it uses some martial art exercises. Billy Blanks never tried to pass his Tae Bo kickboxing class as a martial art and he made millions.

So who decides what is and isn't a martial art? I can call it whatever I want it a my school. Its up to the consumer to decide if I'm successful or not

People can spend money on whatever they want to spend their money on. My statement as a parent just simply pointed out logic in terms of what I look for and the fact that you saw so many kids in that fitness class means that other parents feel the same way. It just doesn't make sense for me to pay all of that money for belts and testing, when my child could be living it up in that fitness class doing things that the normal martial arts students aren't doing. It also shows in those kids faces that they aren't thinking about martial arts, they are just enjoying running around. But kids can't run around like that in a real martial arts class where other students are kicking and punching. The video with the kids running around don't call the video a martial arts video. They call it a children's fitness class.

And again your not the license department, they can run, there school anyway they want.

I worked with kids for more than 20 years and during that time I ran youth development centers, summer camps, museum tours, taught self-defense classes to inner city children, taught computer classes, and now I'm assisting in teaching kids get basic kung fu techniques such as stances correct. And every parent child that was involved in that care about the quality of instruction their child was getting. They wanted their children to learn something of value and to be safe while doing it.

Then you live in paradise because I've had parents tell me to my face i know my kid hates this but I need time to grocery shop or I've heard I need time to workout I don't care if my kid play in the game don't worry about it. Or my fav ever was "Look I know this is a church program but we don't believe in God so can you keep the Jesus talk to a minimum

 

[JowGaWolf]

What's that have to do with kids? You said you saw no kids in the OP

You brought up kids when you said that mostly kids take martial arts.

And again your not the license department, they can run, there school anyway they want.

I don't have to be a license department to call out bad martial arts. And you are right they can run it any way they want to. The same way they can run the school as they see fit, is the same freedom others have to call out bad martial arts.

Then you live in paradise because I've had parents tell me to my face i know my kid hates this but I need time to grocery shop or I've heard I need time to workout I don't care if my kid play in the game don't worry about it. Or my fav ever was "Look I know this is a church program but we don't believe in God so can you keep the Jesus talk to a minimum

I live far from paradise.
#1 If you run a program then you set the standards you don't let the parents set the standard.
#2 I have always been straight forward with parents not only about what I do but my expectations for the students who participate in my program. I do the same for adults.
#3 I have told parents in the past before their kids ever signed up, that WE ARE NOT A BABY SITTING SERVICE.
For example: This martial arts school put is up front that they are not a babysitting service

Did you make recommendations to other places that child may enjoy?
If I'm teaching a church program and the parent doesn't believe in God. I would tell them that their kid is in the wrong program and that this month as well as the following months are going to have detailed discussions about Jesus and his teachings. That's what's going to happen if they don't like it then they can take their kid out of it. I wouldn't cater to the parent just so I could get the money.

There always has to be standards

 

[ballen0351]

You brought up kids when you said that mostly kids take martial arts.

You think otherwise?

I don't have to be a license department to call out bad martial arts. And you are right they can run it any way they want to. The same way they can run the school as they see fit, is the same freedom others have to call out bad martial arts.

OR you can act like a grown up and if you see something you don't like you shrug it off and move on. I'm not sure who made you the bad karate police

If I'm teaching a church program and the parent doesn't believe in God. I would tell them that their kid is in the wrong program and that this month as well as the following months are going to have detailed discussions about Jesus and his teachings. That's what's going to happen if they don't like it then they can take their kid out of it. I wouldn't cater to the parent just so I could get the money.

Well its free so no money was involved and we view it as a chance to expose kids to something they are lacking. Im not going to punish the child by kicking them out because there parents dont believe

 

[JowGaWolf]

OR you can act like a grown up and if you see something you don't like you shrug it off and move on. I'm not sure who made you the bad karate police

The reason I point out martial arts is for the same reason I would point out a hole in the ground, so the person walking the same path doesn't get hurt as a result of "stepping into the hole." If you still decide to fall into the hole after I pointed it out to you then that's fine with me.

But you are probably right. If I see something I like I should shrug it off and move on. And not point out something bad that I see.
Chinese mother killed riding escalator - CNN.com

 

[ballen0351]

The reason I point out martial arts is for the same reason I would point out a hole in the ground, so the person walking the same path doesn't get hurt as a result of "stepping into the hole." If you still decide to fall into the hole after I pointed it out to you then that's fine with me.

But you are probably right. If I see something I like I should shrug it off and move on. And not point out something bad that I see.
Chinese mother killed riding escalator - CNN.com

Big difference between a hazard that can hurt someone like a hole and a group of guys enjoying a hobby not bothering anyone. I'm not sure why you feel the need to make fun of them because somehow you have crowned yourself the Martial Arts police

 

[JowGaWolf]

Big difference between a hazard that can hurt someone like a hole and a group of guys enjoying a hobby not bothering anyone. I'm not sure why you feel the need to make fun of them because somehow you have crowned yourself the Martial Arts police

Doing martial arts can hurt you just as easy as falling in a hole especially when the techniques are done incorrectly or when the Instructor doesn't care about the well being of the students. Incorrect kicking techniques can cause serious damage to the knees. Incorrect punching technique can break your wrist, hand, or fingers. Incorrect technique when using a broadsword can damage your elbow. Wrong fist formation can break or hyper-extend the thumb. Incorrect stance can cause serious knee damage.

If you are using a weapon like staff, spear, sword or chain dart then technique becomes everything. Not only can you hurt yourself, but using the weapon wrong can hurt you or someone else that's around you. If you practice with a real sword or spear, then not paying attention to who is around you, or letting kids run around while people are practicing can result in serious injury or death. I say real sword or spear because, my kung fu brothers use real weapons made with "combat steel," one uses a real broad sword (live blade semi sharpened) and the other uses a real spear (real spear head)

I don't feel the need to make fun of them, I just point out bad martial arts when I see it, especially if they are all wearing black belts. Had the people in the video been wearing yellow belts, white belts, or no belts then everyone would have just thought they were learning. There are videos of horrible Jow Ga practitioners doing horrible techniques and no one makes fun of them, or say that they are horrible, because the people in that video aren't claiming to be someone of "black belt" skill level. People look at the videos and can tell they are students.
For example:

He gets more than a few techniques wrong. This guy has bad techniques as well

None of these guys claim to be an expert and they don't put themselves in the light of being an expert.

As for me personally. I don't "police" Jow Ga kung fu. There are Jow Ga associations that do that. I personally don't worry about karate looking bad beyond, bad instructors and unqualified instructors causing harm by misleading people and taking advantage of them. I speak my mind about stuff like that always. If people get upset when I speak my mind about things like that then, all I can say it's not my fault that they do bad Martial arts. Don't get upset at what I say because of what I see. Get upset at the instructors, had they not mislead students then nothing would have been said at all.