The Siu Baat Qua foot Work Form

Discussion in 'Wing Chun' started by futsaowingchun, Nov 13, 2020.

  1. futsaowingchun

    futsaowingchun Brown Belt

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  2. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Blue Belt

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    What other Chinese styles have you studied? How familiar are you with the I Ching hexagrams?

    Trigrams are kind of easy to spot in kung fu literature. They're kind of a big deal.
     
  3. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Blue Belt

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    Five animals, five elements. Maybe.
    The Eight Trigrams are pretty specific. Here is a child with better form than probably any of us.

     
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  4. Jens

    Jens Green Belt

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    Please explain your understanding of the I Ching hexagrams in regards to it’s relationship to wing chun.
     
  5. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    It’s not “maybe”. I’ve seen them.

    Another good example. We also have a “fifth brother staff”. It looks nothing like this one.
     
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  6. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    - Boxing emphasizes jab, cross, hook, and uppercut (offense tools).
    - WC emphasizes Fu Shou, Tan Shou, and Bong Shou (defense tools).

    Why?

    May I ask a very stupid question here?

    If you want to use a technique in this form to kill your opponent, which move will you use, and how?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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  7. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Here is another set with the same name: fifth son (“brother”, it is a reference to a family) eight trigrams. Again, very different from the form by that name that you posted.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=emb_rel_end&v=hrSji8CX9k0
     
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  8. yak sao

    yak sao Senior Master

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    They are not defensive moves.
    The arms thrust forward and if unobstructed, they attack and continue to attack until the opponent is defeated.
    If the path to the opponent is obstructed, then and only then do these various structures form.
     
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  9. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Here are my questions:

    - Palm strike is done by freezing the body and only move the arms.
    - Palm strike is done after the footwork is stopped.
    - The power generation has nothing to do with the footwork.

    Why?
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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  10. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If palm strike is used for offense, should power generation be included?

    Does non-Ip Men WC have

    - dynamic strike concept that striking while feet are moving?
    - coordinate punch with foot landing?

    If you always punch when your footwork stop, you will never be able to develop hand and foot coordination. This is my main concern.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  11. yak sao

    yak sao Senior Master

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    It sounds like you are basing all of WC on the Siu Nim Tao form.
    While this form is extremely important, it is not representative of how a WC practitioner moves and fights.
    WC done correctly has very active footwork to not only move around the opponent but also to dissolve our opponent's force and multiply the force of our own attack.
    BTW, getting back the Siu Nim Tao form, one of the things it develops is body unity, so what looks like arm movements are actually involving the whole body.
     
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  12. yak sao

    yak sao Senior Master

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    I can't speak for non Yip Man lineages as my lineage is from the YM line, but just like every reputable MA, wing Chun uses footwork.
     
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  13. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If this is the 4th WC form, I'll expect that the striking and footwork should be integrated together and not separate apart.

    - Step, step, turn. strike.
    - Step, slide, turn, strike.
     
  14. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Blue Belt

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    Oh god we don't have that kind of time, but here's a lame attempt.

    How do you tell whether a trigram is Yin or Yang in fundamental nature?

    Hint: there are 2 trigrams in a hexagram.
     
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  15. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Blue Belt

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    Oh, so it's not Ten Animals, or Ten Elements?

    Ten symbols?

    Maybe you see where I'm going with this.
     
  16. Svarog

    Svarog White Belt

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    Fut Sao is actually slightly modified Yip Man's wing chun. Even a superficial research will show that. It is interesting how people believe everything their teacher say, even if the story has no base in realty and zero proof.
     
  17. wckf92

    wckf92 Master Black Belt

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    I think so too.
    Don't get me wrong...KFW is probably a thousand times more skillful and experienced than I am...but from his posts and his understanding of wing chun, I'd say he was either taught incorrectly and/or was taught to look at wing chun in a 'literal' fashion.
     
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  18. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Um, no. I’ve seen other forms called “five animals.” Not ten. Five. Not symbols. Animals. We have one in my system. I’ve seen others. They are nothing like the one we do.
     
  19. Callen

    Callen Green Belt

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    It sounds like your questions are better suited for the OP that shared the video (@futsaowingchun), hopefully either he or another Fut Sao Wing Chun practitioner can help give you some insight.
     
  20. Oily Dragon

    Oily Dragon Blue Belt

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    The word is "Ying" (symbol, pattern). Ng Ying, Sup Ying.

    There are a few variations of the southern family Five Animals sets, and then the Sup Ying (Ten Pattern) sets. In Hung Kuen for example the Wong Fei Hung school contains the Five Animal Fist (Ng Ying Kuen), but in other schools it's called Five Animal, Five Element Fist, but still it is called Sup Ying Kuen (5 Pattern Fist), patterns being Dragon, Snake, Tiger, Leopard, and Crane (in that order).

    The important note is that Wing Chun contains only a handful of these, no matter the lineage, but it sometimes also contains interesting things like Bagua in this lineage.

    Didn't you notice the "Baat Qua"? Bagua. Eight Trigrams Fist, in Wing Chun. Such is the glory of kung fu.123
     

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