The science behind screaming.

[JowGaWolf]

It has always been my plan that when fighting multiple people, that I should make the first guy that attacks scream as if he's dying. My theory is that screaming is unnerving and a person screaming in great pain would at the very least change the focus from kicking my butt to being more concern with why their buddy is screaming in so much pain.

So today on my roku I watched a video about a recent study on the science behind screaming. I haven't had time to read the full study but the findings were very interesting. The Roku played an audio file based on the science. They played 2 tones that were the same tone but one was altered to increase the roughness of the tone. I didn't like the rough sounding tone. Long story short, scientist believe that screaming is a natural survival instinct that is so deeply rooted in humans that it affects us in a negative way. It actually increases fear in us on a chemical level. I'm looking forward to read the research on it.

The science behind screaming.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I agree with the premise, but I'm not sure how to reliably get people screaming. I've been present for a few broken bones (including one of my own), and none of them did more than whimper, moan, or cuss. I've been present for more damaging injuries, and only one came even close to screaming - some went into shock and made no noise. I've watched a lot of videos of people being attacked, knifed, and injured during sports or stupid stunts. Very few screamed.

I still look to advertise on the first guy, but I don't expect him to scream. If he does, that's a bonus.

That said, I want to read that study.

 

[hoshin1600]

thats why i have a pet tiger that i bring about with me. when he digs those claws in , its a guaranteed scream.

 

[jobo]

It has always been my plan that when fighting multiple people, that I should make the first guy that attacks scream as if he's dying. My theory is that screaming is unnerving and a person screaming in great pain would at the very least change the focus from kicking my butt to being more concern with why their buddy is screaming in so much pain.

So today on my roku I watched a video about a recent study on the science behind screaming. I haven't had time to read the full study but the findings were very interesting. The Roku played an audio file based on the science. They played 2 tones that were the same tone but one was altered to increase the roughness of the tone. I didn't like the rough sounding tone. Long story short, scientist believe that screaming is a natural survival instinct that is so deeply rooted in humans that it affects us in a negative way. It actually increases fear in us on a chemical level. I'm looking forward to read the research on it.

The science behind screaming.

i think your plan has significant flaws, its not that common out side of the movies for attacker to queue up to attack you and screaming by adult males isn't that common, what were you thinking of doing to cause them to scream out like a stuck pig ? Getting them with a red hot pocket might do it, but you may have trouble keeping it hot for long

 

[hoshin1600]

, what were you thinking of doing to cause them to scream out like a stuck pig ?

stick em' like a pig....what else

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i think your plan has significant flaws, its not that common out side of the movies for attacker to queue up to attack you and screaming by adult males isn't that common, what were you thinking of doing to cause them to scream out like a stuck pig ? Getting them with a red hot pocket might do it, but you may have trouble keeping it hot for long

The concept doesn't require they queue up, you'd just apply it to whomever you lay hands on first. I agree with the issue you raise.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I agree with the premise, but I'm not sure how to reliably get people screaming. I've been present for a few broken bones (including one of my own), and none of them did more than whimper, moan, or cuss. I've been present for more damaging injuries, and only one came even close to screaming - some went into shock and made no noise. I've watched a lot of videos of people being attacked, knifed, and injured during sports or stupid stunts. Very few screamed.

I still look to advertise on the first guy, but I don't expect him to scream. If he does, that's a bonus.

That said, I want to read that study.

You make a valid point. I wonder if you have to do more to get a scream from the bone breaking, for example, after the bone breaks pull on the broken bone or jam it towards the other broken piece. If the body goes into shock then their won't be any noise. There would be an increased risk of death but there won't be any noise. Shock would be worse than the broken arm simply because we don't determine when or if our body goes into shock. I wouldn't expect much screaming from a knife attack unless someone jabbed a knife into the body and started twisting it.

I began to think of things we do in terms of screaming. I was curious to see how much I could think of and the reason why we say do it or how it makes us feel.
1. We tell kids and women to yell / scream for help
2. Martial arts has yelling / screaming in the forms and scream when punching.
3. The ancient battle cry as men charge across the field
4. We scream and yell at larger animals that we think will bite us (dogs, bears, etc.)
5. Screaming kids tend to get on the nerves of some adults
6. The confederate rebel yell. I have heard some legendary stuff about that.

 

[hoshin1600]

I began to think of things we do in terms of screaming. I was curious to see how much I could think of and the reason why we say do it or how it makes us feel.

your confusing screaming with making loud noise. its a well established idea that making loud noise is how primates create dominance over other primates and other groups. think of a silver back gorilla banging its chest and roaring. monkeys in trees shaking branches and howling to ward off intruders in their territory. guns that go bang when all you got it sticks. cannon that go boom when all you got is riffles. military strategic history has known for a long long time the demoralization factor of loud cannon fire, rifle fire and loud battle cries. it causes panic and fear in the enemy.

 

[jobo]

You make a valid point. I wonder if you have to do more to get a scream from the bone breaking, for example, after the bone breaks pull on the broken bone or jam it towards the other broken piece. If the body goes into shock then their won't be any noise. There would be an increased risk of death but there won't be any noise. Shock would be worse than the broken arm simply because we don't determine when or if our body goes into shock. I wouldn't expect much screaming from a knife attack unless someone jabbed a knife into the body and started twisting it.

I began to think of things we do in terms of screaming. I was curious to see how much I could think of and the reason why we say do it or how it makes us feel.
1. We tell kids and women to yell / scream for help
2. Martial arts has yelling / screaming in the forms and scream when punching.
3. The ancient battle cry as men charge across the field
4. We scream and yell at larger animals that we think will bite us (dogs, bears, etc.)
5. Screaming kids tend to get on the nerves of some adults
6. The confederate rebel yell. I have heard some legendary stuff about that.

if your unlucky enough to face multiple attackers, them you want to knock them down very quickly, so you can deal with the next, you don't want to be caught,swinging on someone's arm whilst his buddy punches you,

there is a difference between you yelling, which may or may not help and them yelling which won't help you much if at all

 

[hoshin1600]

there is also a frequency factor. when police get shot you will often hear them screaming like a little girl calling for help on their radio. this is not to disparage them but rather just pointing out that when the adrenaline starts pumping due to a life threatening situation the vocal cords go higher, i have heard it called chipmunk voice.
while on the contrary aggressive sounds are lower than usual. perhaps a lower pitch triggers the auto response in the brain to think the threat is bigger.

 

[JowGaWolf]

i think your plan has significant flaws, its not that common out side of the movies for attacker to queue up to attack you and screaming by adult males isn't that common, what were you thinking of doing to cause them to scream out like a stuck pig ? Getting them with a red hot pocket might do it, but you may have trouble keeping it hot for long

Attack the areas that are easy to damage, but not just attack them but brutally attack those areas. For example, if I break my attacker's finger, I don't want to let it go after I break it. I want to continue to hold onto that broken finger and cause more damage to that area. If I go for the larger joints, I don't want to just break the arm and leg at those joints and let go. I want to maintain my grip and cause more damage to the area.

I think of it similar to having blood drawn. When the nurse hits gets it right it's no problem, but when the nurse is terrible at it she decides to not only leave the needle in the arm, but to use the needle to search for the vein, then it becomes a brand new pain. So if I break something then I want to continue to target that break because not it's the easiest part of the body to damage again. If I'm holding onto a limb when it breaks then I don't want to let go of it, because then I'll have to try to re-grab it later on, but only if that opportunity comes up. If I have to drag one person around by a broken arm while trying to defend against his buddies then that would be my idea scenario with the lowest risks.

If I break something and the guy doesn't scream then I'll go to the next guy and try to repeat the process. My goal for dealing with multiple attackers is to cause fear within the group. My Sifu explains this in a 1 vs 1 scenario as. "You have to make your attacker afraid to be hit by you." In a multiple attacker scenario. I want to make the other attackers think twice before coming to get some. I want them to have doubt, fear, and uncertainty about their ability to hurt me without having the same thing happen to them that happened to their partner.

Here's my theory about the "first attacker."
The first attacker will either be the bravest/highest skilled or the dumbest of the group. If he's the bravest, then me hurting and defeating him will lower the moral of the others. If he's the dumbest then I'll know that the others really don't want to fight which is why the sent the dumbest person in first in hopes to get an edge. If he's the dumbest then my attackers are playing a game of sacrifice which means there's a good chance that I won't have to fight them all. I would only need to fight to the last person they are willing to sacrifice. Sometimes this person is used to test the waters and to help the other gauge what they are getting themselves into.

Either way, I have to make to do my best to send a message that it's going to be brutal. Someone getting knocked out with one punch does not spark the same fear of seeing another human "maul" your crew.

 

[JowGaWolf]

if your unlucky enough to face multiple attackers, them you want to knock them down very quickly, so you can deal with the next,

I fight differently. The first thing in my play book is to instill fear, anxiety, or uncertainty. I have more of a chance to instill fear than to knock a group of people down as quickly as possible, which only works if they come one at a time. If they jump you then your plan to knock one down and move the the next goes out of the window. If you get a well coordinated "pack of humans" then you can forget about knocking them one down quickly.

 

[JowGaWolf]

your confusing screaming with making loud noise. its a well established idea that making loud noise is how primates create dominance over other primates and other groups.

I don't know if I'm confusing it or not because I haven't read the actual report yet. But in terms of loud, I've never heard a quiet scream before.

 

[oftheherd1]

Attack the areas that are easy to damage, but not just attack them but brutally attack those areas. For example, if I break my attacker's finger, I don't want to let it go after I break it. I want to continue to hold onto that broken finger and cause more damage to that area. If I go for the larger joints, I don't want to just break the arm and leg at those joints and let go. I want to maintain my grip and cause more damage to the area.

I think of it similar to having blood drawn. When the nurse hits gets it right it's no problem, but when the nurse is terrible at it she decides to not only leave the needle in the arm, but to use the needle to search for the vein, then it becomes a brand new pain. So if I break something then I want to continue to target that break because not it's the easiest part of the body to damage again. If I'm holding onto a limb when it breaks then I don't want to let go of it, because then I'll have to try to re-grab it later on, but only if that opportunity comes up. If I have to drag one person around by a broken arm while trying to defend against his buddies then that would be my idea scenario with the lowest risks.

If I break something and the guy doesn't scream then I'll go to the next guy and try to repeat the process. My goal for dealing with multiple attackers is to cause fear within the group. My Sifu explains this in a 1 vs 1 scenario as. "You have to make your attacker afraid to be hit by you." In a multiple attacker scenario. I want to make the other attackers think twice before coming to get some. I want them to have doubt, fear, and uncertainty about their ability to hurt me without having the same thing happen to them that happened to their partner.

Here's my theory about the "first attacker."
The first attacker will either be the bravest/highest skilled or the dumbest of the group. If he's the bravest, then me hurting and defeating him will lower the moral of the others. If he's the dumbest then I'll know that the others really don't want to fight which is why the sent the dumbest person in first in hopes to get an edge. If he's the dumbest then my attackers are playing a game of sacrifice which means there's a good chance that I won't have to fight them all. I would only need to fight to the last person they are willing to sacrifice. Sometimes this person is used to test the waters and to help the other gauge what they are getting themselves into.

Either way, I have to make to do my best to send a message that it's going to be brutal. Someone getting knocked out with one punch does not spark the same fear of seeing another human "maul" your crew.

I can agree with brutal attacks on parts of the body. But in the Hapkido I studied, we considered the original defense sufficient. It might be a joint lock to a quick dislocation, or driving an opponent quickly to the ground and a strike. But unless we are going for a come-along hold, we want it quick, and if brutal, OK. But we don't want to hang on when we could be using that time to defend against another opponent. If you only have one opponent, your method would not be bad. But against multiple opponents you need every second to prepare to defend the next opponent you can get to.

 

[jobo]

I fight differently. The first thing in my play book is to instill fear, anxiety, or uncertainty. I have more of a chance to instill fear than to knock a group of people down as quickly as possible, which only works if they come one at a time. If they jump you then your plan to knock one down and move the the next goes out of the window. If you get a well coordinated "pack of humans" then you can forget about knocking them one down quickly.

have you ever fought multiple attackers?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It has always been my plan that when fighting multiple people, that I should make the first guy that attacks scream as if he's dying.

I can never be able to understand why people scream. When I feel dangerous, I will be so quite, save all my energy to deal with that situation. I just don't think there is luxury to scream.

 

[JowGaWolf]

But we don't want to hang on when we could be using that time to defend against another opponent.

If you get attacked by multiple people you may not have the option to "beat-one and fight the next"

have you ever fought multiple attackers?

Fortunately no. Not outside of scenario training which is just multiple sparring since I can't use of the techniques I would use in a real world multiple attack. The 3 "real world" times where I was in danger of being attacked by multiple people ended in my favor. I was able to create enough uncertainty and uneasiness within the group that the multiple attack didn't happen. (from most recent to oldest)
1. Drug dealer trying to recruit people to beat me up
2. 2 people trying to size me up after leaving the movies on my way back to my car.
3. A group of Greek guys that didn't like that I was dating a white woman, thinking about sizing me in the street.

Outside of scenario training in martial arts and 1 vs Everyone as a kid. That's the extent of me fighting multiple attackers. Unfortunately my brother and my brother-in-law have been attacked by multiple people. Both of them took the fetal position and weathered the storm. Another occasion my brother was trying to restrain one guy in a club and another guy tried to attack from behind. My brother was able to evade it. I was witness to 10 people mixed with teens and adults literally beat a teenager out of their neighborhood. I've broken up a couple of fights that were 1 vs many. That is the extent of my experience with multiple attackers.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I can never be able to understand why people scream. When I feel dangerous, I will be so quite, save all my energy to deal with that situation. I just don't think there is luxury to scream.

I never scream myself, even when doing forms. It feels weird to me but after reading some of the the full research. I plan on screaming in my next sparring match.

I'll record it so that I can look at the reaction from the outside. I just hope I can scream correctly with a mouth piece in. I'm curious to see their reaction.

Edit: It's known that we can scare and startle people with a scream. So in terms of screaming when punching, I wonder if that's one of the things screaming does.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I never scream myself, even when doing forms.

Do you consider "exhale" as "scream"?

 

[JowGaWolf]

Do you consider "exhale" as "scream"?

According to the research the scream has to have a roughness to the sound. I'm thinking an exhale like that doesn't have the same roughness that's needed to trigger the chemical reaction in the brain. This is the video that I originally saw that sparked my curiosity. They have an audio sound that demonstrates what they mean by "roughness"