the satanic bible

[jarrod]

just finished reading this book last night, & i have to say i enjoyed it. it's basically a self-help book marketed towards those who feel let down by convential religion. it essentially advocates self-acceptance, individualism, harmony with nature, & epicureanism. plus it has a little hocus-pocus thrown in, which i believe is aimed at acheiving an emotial purge. what's kind of amusing is that the 'magic' described ultimately aims at the same things as many eastern religious practices (namely the removal of desire), though he skirts that issue pretty well. basically the satanist is to perform a highly emotionally charged ritual (described in the text) with sole focus on acheiving whatever desire he has in mind. if the ritual is properly completed, the satanist will have no more dominating thoughts about his desire. of course, there is a list of reasons why your magic might not bring you exactly what you expect.

plus, i have to give levay credit: he founded a religion that was adamently individualistic, then charged membership to be associated with other individuals! great read, & a great con.

jf

 

[Omar B]

It's a great read I'll give you that. Totally different from what people would think it is about on the outside without reading it. It's really about individuality, self esteem and seeing the greatness in yourself. I totally recommend it to people, even christians.

But at the end of the day like you said it's a religion and has all the pitfalls of all the religions. Sacrifices of the soul or the pocket book.

 

[chav buster]

i have read most of levays, work and its a bit to self involved for my liking and aimed at pissed off teenagers but each to there own.

 

[jarrod]

it's kind of like nietzsche lite. i think i'll start recommending it to folks that might not quite get nietzsche but could benefit from his ideas.

one thing that has stuck with me was the consciously constructed nature of the rituals. i think that sacred ritual can be very valuable psychologically, but only if people feel connected to the mythology surrounding the ritual. out of the handful of modern religions i've read up on, lavey's satanism seems to be the most conscious of possible psychological benefits, & i can see how the imagery invoked would be useful to pissed off teenagers as well as a few others.

jf

 

[Joab]

I would recommend reading The Holy Bible, and eschewing the Satanic one. I think you will find The Holy Bible both edifying and uplifting, with clear step by step instructions for gaining eternal life in bliss. Satan is a loser, Jesus is a winner.

 

[Sukerkin]

Given that I consider both 'imaginary friends' to be more likely a fiction than a reality and that organised religion is more a trigger for war than peace, I reckon the phrase that best describes this book (other than a "nice little earner" for the author) is "Nietzsche Lite" .

Take a bow, Jarrod .

 

[jarrod]

I would recommend reading The Holy Bible, and eschewing the Satanic one. I think you will find The Holy Bible both edifying and uplifting, with clear step by step instructions for gaining eternal life in bliss. Satan is a loser, Jesus is a winner.

read it a couple times, didn't do much for me. i like that jesus cat though. he was far out.

jf

 

[grydth]

Folks, read and learn from whatever you want.

However, I would say Christians would do well to steer away from it..... the Christian Bible would refer to this simply as a temptation of Satan, a collage of lies to show the Devil really isn't a bad guy.... environmentally conscious, too!

I am not thinking we will ever see the point where it's, "I'm Okay, You're Okay" between Christ and Satan.

 

[jarrod]

I am not thinking we will ever see the point where it's, "I'm Okay, You're Okay" between Christ and Satan.

if i may play devil's advocate here (ha! see what i did there? pun!) it all depends on what we mean by satan.

first, there's satan the adversary of the first testament. he's not so much a bad guy as a prosecuting attorney or divine vice cop trying to catch us screwing up, even if it means laying a trap or two. but he was never portrayed as opposed to god in that context.

second, there is the satan of popular christian mythology (& by 'myth' i don't mean 'lie', i mean the generally understood symbolic/unconscious meaning). even so, if this guy weren't around christ would be out of a job. i don't mean to sound flip, but all dualistic religions depend on the cosmic balance struck by the opposing forces.

& finally we have the satan of levay's church. satan is really just a symbol for the self, & this is pretty clearly expressed. in this context, i would certainly hope that there could be some good vibes between jesus & satan!

anyway, i'm not wanting to get into a christian vs satanist argument with anybody, i just read this book, thought it was interesting, & decided to share some thoughts about it.

jf

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I read both bibles.

The Satanic bible to me is very egocentric. Viewing yourself as the most important being or your own God, Indulge in the Seven Sins, invoking hate.

Reading the Nine rules and Nine statements we can see it is not a very positive religion.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

 

[Bill Mattocks]

LaVey was an interesting person, and in my opinion, he drew a lot of his beliefs from Aleister Crowley's writings, including "The Book of the Law."

Many or most Western mystery cults are centered around concepts of enlightened self-interest, rejection of Western Judeo-Christian (indeed, any) religion, and the celebration of self best described as "Do as Thou Shalt," sometimes modified to include the concept 'as long as it does not hurt anyone else'.

The biggest problem with doing as one shall is that one must be capable of discerning what one might do that hurts another. Have an affair? If both parties agree, surely that would be allowed. Ah, but what of the jilted lover?

One can take that all the way from adultery to the types of banking and real estate shenanigans that have our economy in a tailspin. Lots of people did as they would, and apparently disregarded or failed to note whom it would hurt.

If one could truly do just as they pleased, but with absolute regard for the 'hurt' one might inflict by one's actions, one might find their life to be lived not that differently from the precepts of behavior encoded in religions like Christianity. Which is, of course, ironic.

 

[Omar B]

So what's wrong with it being ego centric?

Believe me, the "Satan" in Lavey's work is not the Satan from the bible. It's an idea of individuality and self assertion.

But whatever, I'm an atheist and I find religion as a whole to be fairy tales.

 

[Makalakumu]

If one could truly do just as they pleased, but with absolute regard for the 'hurt' one might inflict by one's actions, one might find their life to be lived not that differently from the precepts of behavior encoded in religions like Christianity. Which is, of course, ironic.

From the little tidbits I know of Crowley and other mystery schools, I'd have to agree with Bill. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law," is basically what Crowley wrote and he described it as the key to personal and magical power.

On a personal level, I am very uncomfortable with this and I am absolutely convinced that a society that lived like this would produce untold suffering...or "Hell" on Earth. Look at some of the problems we have right now...they are reflected in that statement.

As soon as we take others into account, things begin to change. Yeah, we don't have the ability to transform our lives into everything we want through any means necessary, but that is the price we pay for the happiness of the people around us.

LaVay didn't discover Satanism or any such tripe. The name "Satanism" is just a name and is kind of stupid (I believe he writes that also). What he is writing about is the universal root of evil, IMO. Think about it from an Evolutionary perspective. Any social order would be threatened by its members living like that.

 

[CoryKS]

It's an interesting read. It's claimed that LaVey "borrowed" heavily from the book Might is Right, written by a guy who went by the name of Ragnar Redbeard. He was also the inspiration for the pirate in Atlas Shrugged.

This site compares some of LaVey's text to Redbeards, for those who are curious.

 

[Omar B]

It's an interesting read. It's claimed that LaVey "borrowed" heavily from the book Might is Right, written by a guy who went by the name of Ragnar Redbeard. He was also the inspiration for the pirate in Atlas Shrugged.

The Pirate in Atlas Shugged was named Ragnar Danneskjoldand no Lavey didn't base anything on him. He tried to ally himself with Ayn Rand (by plagarizing) at the time because she championed individualism but she was from an Arestotilian root while he was from a Nizchean root (wholly different ways at looking at the world). Yes he outright stole concepts from many sources into one great hodgpodge including Rand but he totally screws it.

Atlas Shrugged is my favorite book, I know these things.

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

Think what you like of the book, love it or hate it, but keep in mind that in his youth, Tony La Vey worked as a carnie.
Just sayin'- Caveat Emptor.

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

So what's wrong with it being ego centric?

In a surivival setting say in the jungle it makes sense.

In a society being ego centric can work against you. Ego centric people lack empathy or compassion because of the focus on themselves. The distinction of I vs world instead of object and subject being part of the same whole results in a conflict.

 

[jarrod]

From the little tidbits I know of Crowley and other mystery schools, I'd have to agree with Bill. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law," is basically what Crowley wrote and he described it as the key to personal and magical power.

On a personal level, I am very uncomfortable with this and I am absolutely convinced that a society that lived like this would produce untold suffering...or "Hell" on Earth. Look at some of the problems we have right now...they are reflected in that statement.

As soon as we take others into account, things begin to change. Yeah, we don't have the ability to transform our lives into everything we want through any means necessary, but that is the price we pay for the happiness of the people around us.

LaVay didn't discover Satanism or any such tripe. The name "Satanism" is just a name and is kind of stupid (I believe he writes that also). What he is writing about is the universal root of evil, IMO. Think about it from an Evolutionary perspective. Any social order would be threatened by its members living like that.

if you read lavey & crowley carefully, they are not at all anti-social, although it can appear that way to people conditioned as we are to think in a socially conscious way. "do what thou will" is the law of thelema, but all magical practices are geared towards aligning your will with "the true will". in other words, if you are an accomplished thelemite, your will should be in accord with the true will/divine will of the universe & should not bring any harm.

also, lavey's satanism isn't anti social, but just advocates saving your compassion & care for those who deserve it, while guiltlessly disregarding people who bring nothing to the table so to speak. it's really no different from what most societies do: care for the productive members & eliminate or ignore the ones who are a detriment to the group.

even levay's advice to indulge in teh se7en deadlies isn't really out of line with most religious thinking if you look at it. for instance he says that we should indulge lust because that is how we procreate (i.e., "go forth & multiply"), greed & envy fuel ambition, & so on. then he draws this careful distinction between indulgence & compulsion, which tempers the sins. anyway, it's interesting how all religions teach basically the same things, they just argue over how to say it & how to go about accomplishing their goals.

Think what you like of the book, love it or hate it, but keep in mind that in his youth, Tony La Vey worked as a carnie.
Just sayin'- Caveat Emptor.

so you're saying he possessed unlawful carnie knowledge? :lol:

jf

 

[Omar B]

In a surivival setting say in the jungle it makes sense.
In a society being ego centric can work against you. Ego centric people lack empathy or compassion because of the focus on themselves. The distinction of I vs world instead of object and subject being part of the same whole results in a conflict.

I think you are wrong. I'm ego centric but I do have empathy and compassion to those who matter to me, those who are worth it. Friends, family, outside of that I really could care less. I'm an objectivist and one of the cornerstones is rational self interest. I care about myself and those who have value for me.

The moral purpose of a man’s life is the achievement of his own happiness. This does not mean that he is indifferent to all men, that human life is of no value to him and that he has no reason to help others in an emergency. But it does mean that he does not subordinate his life to the welfare of others, that he does not sacrifice himself to their needs, that the relief of their suffering is not his primary concern, that any help he gives is an exception, not a rule, an act of generosity, not of moral duty, that it is marginal and incidental—as disasters are marginal and incidental in the course of human existence—and that values, not disasters, are the goal, the first concern and the motive power of his life. - Ayn Rand

 

[JadecloudAlchemist]

I think you are wrong. I'm ego centric but I do have empathy and compassion to those who matter to me, those who are worth it. Friends, family, outside of that I really could care less. I'm an objectivist and one of the cornerstones is rational self interest. I care about myself and those who have value for me.

The Keyword is ONLY THAT MATTER TO YOU. Which does not really show humility or compassion and empathy to others because the key to true compassion,humility and empathy is to be for all beings not the ones you pick and choose.

I truly feel a mans morals is to better serve his fellow man and the world if you or someone was in hard times would you want a stranger to help you or would you turn him down?