The rule sets of combat

[drop bear]

I'd suggest continuing to fight a dead guy is at best inconvenient, and therefore a disadvantage, plus it may mKe you look like an out of control phyco, and that's definitely a disadvantage if it goes to court

Rule #2

Double tap.

 

[jobo]

Rule #2

Double tap.

r?ule one don't turn a set of circumstances that are possibly justifiable homicide, but at worse manslaughter in to a bolt on murder conviction

 

[drop bear]

r?ule one don't turn a set of circumstances that are at worse manslaughter in to a bolt on murder conviction

Murder is premeditated. Not making a dead guy more dead.

 

[dvcochran]

i do not want to assume what you mean when you mention rules being interchangeable. but i think many rules are universal and its possible some will change as the encounter changes.

i also know that the bear was interviewed after and he said he was "just playing around"

Wouldn't universal and interchangeable have the same meaning in this context?

 

[jobo]

Murder is premeditated. Not making a dead guy more dead.

that depends if he is actually dead or not,, people general considered dead when declared so by a doctor, if he is still in the act of dying ( a flicker of brain activity is enough)then its murder with the double tap, thatsif they can determine which came first, it certainly removes any defence that you had no intent for him to die, as clearly the double tap means you did,

 

[Deleted member 39746]

But we can build an imaginary world full of threats and danger, there an awful lot of inconsiderate , agresive knob heads round here , but I can generally choose if I get into a confrontation with them or just wander off, and mostly I can't be bothered.

or we can look at a realistic stance of predatory violence where you don't choose to fight at all.

And the very relevant and important and useful proverb: "better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." Never hurts to not forget that one.

Anyway, you prepare for your circumstances to what you believe to be important etc etc.

You can test if you can get to your gun, you can't test if it will stop the fight.

You can, go out hunting with it and see how long it takes and reliable it is in killing game. I believe pigs are quite similar to people. If it will drop a bear pretty fast you know it will drop a person relatively fast. draw some educated guesses from either hunting experience, if you have ever killed anyone with it or if anyone else has, so stats of the round/firearm.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Sorry for double post, saw the double tap comments. you could probably easily justify two shots in rapid succession if the person drops. If the person doesnt drop, no issue as they are still a viable threat to keep shooting. If you how ever shoot somone on the floor clearly after they stopped being a threat that wouldn't be justifiable for self defence. (which no one said anyone did or wouldn't be, i was just making the point of a clearly justified shot and a clearly not justified shot)

And double tap is a good policy as the likelihood of one shot stopping the threat/being effective on its own is pretty low but pending round.

Dont people tend to run after being shot or get killed in the first couple of rounds or otherwise incapacitated to stop being a threat? Haven't looked into any stats for it, i would presume running and/or dying/being incapacitated is the top few results of shootings in self defence where a shooting is needed.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Will that move place me in an advantageous position?. Will the move risk me being put in a disadvantaged position?

I think this pair of questions (especially the second half) gets missed in some approaches to traditional grappling. There are techniques I like as recovery moves (I screwed up, and need a way out), but wouldn't choose as a go-to, because the entry puts you in a bad spot. (For clarification, as a recovery move, you're already in that bad spot.)

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Rule #2

Double tap.

Is rule one "restomp the groin"?

 

[Flying Crane]

Right now I'm headed to the ball field to meet some fellas to do pushups and beat the crap out of each other. Hopefully I won't get poked in the eye.

Is that baseball you are playing?

 

[Flying Crane]

This flinch is what I'm talking about. In a lot of the cases here that flinch was really bad. When you flinch in class, people tend to back off. When you flinch in the ring, the ref steps in. If you flinch in a real situation, you're done.

In the case of your friend - I think there's a difference between seeing pepper spray and knowing what's coming (especially ahead of time like him), compared with suddenly having a finger in your eye in the middle of a fight.

Well, what would you do if you were the guy who got poked in a real fight, something serious where someone who is with you, like your wife/infant child/mother/sister could be in terrible danger of a severe beating or rape or murder, if you go down? Would you just chuck in the towel and roll over? Or do you think that you just might see if you could dig deep inside you and go Berzerker on that dude and make sure your wife/infant child/mother/sister made it home ok? That eye poke just might not be enough to end the fight you've still got inside you.

I keep saying, it depends on how much is on the line.

 

[skribs]

Well, what would you do if you were the guy who got poked in a real fight, something serious where someone who is with you, like your wife/infant child/mother/sister could be in terrible danger of a severe beating or rape or murder, if you go down? Would you just chuck in the towel and roll over? Or do you think that you just might see if you could dig deep inside you and go Berzerker on that dude and make sure your wife/infant child/mother/sister made it home ok? That eye poke just might not be enough to end the fight you've still got inside you.

I keep saying, it depends on how much is on the line.

For the first two seconds? Probably would react instinctively to protect my eye.

 

[drop bear]

Is rule one "restomp the groin"?

Rule one is cardio.

 

[Flying Crane]

For the first two seconds? Probably would react instinctively to protect my eye.

It also depends on what kind of “eye poke” you get. Does it just rub your eyeball for a moment? Or did he bury his fingers two knuckles deep in your eye socket and rip/dig/scoop your smashed and ruined eyeballs out of your head and they are left dangling by the ocular nerve from his jagged and dirty fingernails. That’s a hell of a different kind of eye poke. That is a factor.

But at any rate, you acknowledge that while the eye poke may give you some level of advantage, even if temporary, but it may well not be a fight stopper. Because you are sure as hell gonna come back at that guy with the pedal to the metal, full-blown whopper gonzo *** whooping face stomping on his sorry soul. ‘Cause you want your child to get home safe. And an eye poke ain’t gonna prevent that.

 

[drop bear]

I think this pair of questions (especially the second half) gets missed in some approaches to traditional grappling. There are techniques I like as recovery moves (I screwed up, and need a way out), but wouldn't choose as a go-to, because the entry puts you in a bad spot. (For clarification, as a recovery move, you're already in that bad spot.)

Yeah. The easiest example is rolling off mount for an arm bar. Which is considered a no no for MMA.

But you will see it a bit when a SD. school incorporates some BJJ.

Now two out of three ain't bad. But you are trying to get all the elements in place if you can

 

[drop bear]

It also depends on what kind of “eye poke” you get. Does it just rub your eyeball for a moment? Or did he bury his fingers two knuckles deep in your eye socket and rip/dig/scoop your smashed and ruined eyeballs out of your head and they are left dangling by the ocular nerve from his jagged and dirty fingernails. That’s a hell of a different kind of eye poke. That is a factor.

But at any rate, you acknowledge that while the eye poke may give you some level of advantage, even if temporary, but it may well not be a fight stopper. Because you are sure as hell gonna come back at that guy with the pedal to the metal, full-blown whopper gonzo *** whooping face stomping on his sorry soul. ‘Cause you want your child to get home safe. And an eye poke ain’t gonna prevent that.

Kind of hard to get the eyeball out without bracing the head.

And generally people go for the eyeball when they are loosing which makes bracing the head difficult.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Rule

Is rule one "restomp the groin"?

Rule one is cardio, fittingly enough.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Rule one is cardio.

This is why i should read all the posta before responding

 

[Martial D]

...I assume this is a passive-aggressive rehash of the claim that I'm putting words in your mouth?

Let's come back to this: "You've quoted my words but you haven't read or understood them"

I've read your words, as they are written. I've understood your words, based on what they mean if I read them. If you meant something other than what you wrote, you can't blame me for putting words into your mouth. I am responding based on the words that you wrote.

If you don't mean what you wrote, then you need to clarify what you are talking about. You need to help me understand your position, not from the position of being argumentative, but from finding another way to state what you are saying that makes your position more clear.

This has entered Monty Python territory.

 

[skribs]

This has entered Monty Python territory.

Yep, that clears everything up.