The Quick Boxing Jab as Set-Up for Self-defence Techniques

[monkey]

I stated yes I have done this,In JKD were are incuraged to go to boxing rings & learn it & how its used as well as faults.Jeet kune do was made for 2 resongns.! to unite the arts into 1 way & not be all politiacle or who is best whith what trophy or rank.Peolpe like Lew Delgotto never wanted to know anything of the person he was to fight,hence free of here say or reputaions.Like I said boxing started in the ring.Some was embedded to JKD.Gunting is the philippino art as well as destructions.You cant deploy it like jabs.But it can be deployed,Yes I have & still do it.I dont make a habbit of it.It is not a 100% deployable.Hence other means to get there.If I eye jab the boxer-This gives me entry to deploy a destruction.Maybe a kick to the knee will provide the entry.Each wepon has its place & time.

 

[Cruentus]

I stated yes I have done this,In JKD were are incuraged to go to boxing rings & learn it & how its used as well as faults.

Sure ya did.

 

[monkey]

I thought this forum was set up for the arts & to ask & call a lier even befor you ask shows you dont know of me-the arts or other than to set up as such.Mr hubbard has footage of me doing such at full speed & teatraing it.Sad you want to waist skills calling people liers or tring to set them up to make them look bad.You know not of all my teachers or skills.your not in the place to promote the arts when you do such as this.I told of several people as well as I who have & how to deploy.Yopu saw 1 thing only your veiws & nothing will tell you other.This is not an art i teach or talk of.Others have seen what i can do like Robber Lee on this sight.I dont try to degrade you but time for time you sought me out for such,Why-you know not of me of my skills?I dont say or try to set you up.Please stop this on me.Others who do the arts will read that the ways I told how to deploy are sound & can be done.

 

[Cruentus]

I thought this forum was set up for the arts & to ask & call a lier even befor you ask shows you dont know of me-the arts or other than to set up as such.Mr hubbard has footage of me doing such at full speed & teatraing it.Sad you want to waist skills calling people liers or tring to set them up to make them look bad.You know not of all my teachers or skills.your not in the place to promote the arts when you do such as this.I told of several people as well as I who have & how to deploy.Yopu saw 1 thing only your veiws & nothing will tell you other.This is not an art i teach or talk of.Others have seen what i can do like Robber Lee on this sight.I dont try to degrade you but time for time you sought me out for such,Why-you know not of me of my skills?I dont say or try to set you up.Please stop this on me.Others who do the arts will read that the ways I told how to deploy are sound & can be done.

OK.

 

[matt.m]

I am all about the jab. I do not disagree, in fact the grandmaster I train under says that either a jab or quick back fist is a very effective set up.

 

[monkey]

Sound great set ups.Have you tried useing some of the philosophys of Bruce Lee like P/I/A or A/B/C or H/I/A or A/B/D or I/P/A.These may help to deploy the jab & croos so it is a more formatable wepon.It also may be you do it already & just not in the terms as stated.We each reach the point the same.

 

[lonecoyote]

Great posts and a great thread. Monkey, I see some of your points and can understand where you're coming from. I believe the lazy, and flicker jabs could be gunted or destroyed, and right on pressure testing. I also appreciate that setting up a boxer with the techniques you mentioned eye jab and low kick could make it more deployable. I think Paul and I are just disagreeing with some folks on the basis that the jab is not the setup, the jab can be the finish! People can be knocked out with the jab, made to quit with the jab. But only if you stop thinking set up. I throw combinations anyway and usually start with a jab, but some fights are about the first and last punch being the same one, or about controlling range with power and pain. You can't knock someone out or make em quit with a range finder jab or a flicker or a set up. My jab is intended to hurt, bad. The reason boxing matches go long is because they are in against other boxers. Don't make a mistake in thinking because a fight goes a couple of rounds "I could do that, why doesn't he knock him out?" Against a pro jab I and maybe you, and quite a few folks would be toast with just one or two. Thanks to everyone. Great stuff.

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Great posts and a great thread. Monkey, I see some of your points and can understand where you're coming from. I believe the lazy, and flicker jabs could be gunted or destroyed, and right on pressure testing. I also appreciate that setting up a boxer with the techniques you mentioned eye jab and low kick could make it more deployable. I think Paul and I are just disagreeing with some folks on the basis that the jab is not the setup, the jab can be the finish! People can be knocked out with the jab, made to quit with the jab. But only if you stop thinking set up. I throw combinations anyway and usually start with a jab, but some fights are about the first and last punch being the same one, or about controlling range with power and pain. You can't knock someone out or make em quit with a range finder jab or a flicker or a set up. My jab is intended to hurt, bad. The reason boxing matches go long is because they are in against other boxers. Don't make a mistake in thinking because a fight goes a couple of rounds "I could do that, why doesn't he knock him out?" Against a pro jab I and maybe you, and quite a few folks would be toast with just one or two. Thanks to everyone. Great stuff.

I agree on all points. The destruction, similiar to what Monkey describes, that I learned would be very difficult, if not impossible, IMO, to make work against a pro-boxer. That doesn't discount its effectiveness at all, however, because how many pro-boxers do you face in the street each day? Truth is, the average puncher MAY be made to quit after breaking his fingers on your elbow.

Good points, both Paul and Lonecoyote and others, on the idea of the jab potentially being a fight ender. Gives me something to really work on. Thanks.

 

[monkey]

Its threds like these that show good repore & wuwei or martial minds to colaborate.This is what is fun in the arts.Dont ever loose sight or fall prey to being a national inquire.They only look for how to defame.The arts should unite & train & enjoy the aspects each has to offer.Some pro & some may be con.Hence self exsploring.This is what truely defines us.How can I as a martail artist best use it.Thanks its fun.Love the chat.

 

[Edmund BlackAdder]

I thought this forum was set up for the arts & to ask & call a lier even befor you ask shows you dont know of me-the arts or other than to set up as such.Mr hubbard has footage of me doing such at full speed & teatraing it.Sad you want to waist skills calling people liers or tring to set them up to make them look bad.You know not of all my teachers or skills.your not in the place to promote the arts when you do such as this.I told of several people as well as I who have & how to deploy.Yopu saw 1 thing only your veiws & nothing will tell you other.This is not an art i teach or talk of.Others have seen what i can do like Robber Lee on this sight.I dont try to degrade you but time for time you sought me out for such,Why-you know not of me of my skills?I dont say or try to set you up.Please stop this on me.Others who do the arts will read that the ways I told how to deploy are sound & can be done.

Anyone got the latest "Monkey Speak Patch" for their Universal Translator?
Mines just rendering this as gibberish.

 

[monkey]

Yet another who is set to constently bash or talk bad of.Sad yet the others read clear.You dont want to see any thing but bad.I did down load all your coomets from 1st time,& considering on passing them to Web master.If you took the time to read .Youd see clearly whats said,You just copy-dont read any & bash.Sad not good martial skills.

 

[Ken Pfrenger]

Lapu Lapu and Cortez?

I did FMA for a long time....destructions are not easy. Good luck making them work when you need them.

Personally I say throw the jab not as an annoying bee sting, knock your foe down with it. your hand is already out there, the danger is no greater if you throw a solid punch or a flicker.

 

[monkey]

Good point.The hand is there.If you have to take it-make it the best you have.A flick is usely the ones you have the chance to do some type of counter.The jab harder to counter but,not imposable.If you train with stick at all.The tip of the stick moves much faster then the hand.Yet we train to defend against it.Grandmaster Remy has done so many times.Now a slower hand comes in.Now how many time has Grandmaster shown people arm bars.These emtpy hand skills are from his line. Not mine.Tapi Tapi or the figure 8 was some of those used.

 

[Hand Sword]

A jab should be thrown out at 100 mph, and returned back to the original position at 200 mph. Your hips should swing like a gate, and the jab sould be hard. Anything else is a waste of time, and slower, or not destructive enough, where a counter to it is easier. If you can hit--Hit hard and fast!

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Let's please keep this discussion civil and about the jab and not each other's reading comprehension and "martial skills". Thanks.

 

[monkey]

Great discription,My teacher always talked of gates & axes points.Most jabs even with foot work lack the gate useage or the orbit back.Hence a poor but counterable jab.Ive seen a lot of heymakers that are easy to counter.Any thoughts on the Haymaker.I feel its too wide for a skilled fighter.It is easy fo see coming & counters are wide for what you feel is adiquit.

 

[Hand Sword]

I would agree. It reminds me of the drunk's that wind up one big punch and swing. Easy to counter, or avoid, and leaves the swinger off balance.

 

[monkey]

For the front jab -in the shaolin temple we had what we called the liquid fist as it penitrates threw the gates.The anvil fist(much like a mouse trap-the hand gets its spring from the other hand)The ghost fist was a short range much like the hook.the crazy fist is what we called the haymaker type.It was wide-& youve got to be crazy to use it against a skilled boxer.

 

[Cruentus]

I would agree. It reminds me of the drunk's that wind up one big punch and swing. Easy to counter, or avoid, and leaves the swinger off balance.

Kind of like when some people post, it reads like drunks typing. So easy to counter that it could lead to disciplinary action by the staff, do it's best too avoid.

Anyways, good points everyone.

 

[lonecoyote]

Ken Pfrenger, could you please expound on Dempseys concept of the Jolt? You mentioned a drop step, is that like forward to carry momentum forward into the jab? Thats exactly how I throw it. I know Jack Dempsey wrote a couple of books and had some different ideas on punching and boxing, if you could elaborate that would be really cool.