The problems with [the term] "street fighting"

Paul_D

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An old article, but worth sharing for those that haven't seen it. Arguing about terminology, as I am prone to do, is not just semantics, the misconceptions that can arise when using the wrong names to describe one thing when you actually mean the other are both problematic and dangerous.

The problems with "street fighting" | Iain Abernethy
 

drop bear

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Semantic terminology is a cheap way of controlling the conversation by putting nuance where you want it and away from where they do.

So if kung fu is technically asian crap. Then you have just decided how it is percieved.

That is why people go head to head about tems like self defence. So that they can become the expert of the terminology. Irrelevant to their experience in the actual subject.
 

Hanzou

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Abernethy is lucky he's bald. He was splitting tons of hairs in that article.
 

Th0mas

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Abernethy is lucky he's bald. He was splitting tons of hairs in that article.
It is precisely because "street fighting" means different things to different people that a clear definition is required if you don't want to be discussing the topic at cross purposes.

It is for exactly the same reason that specialist subjects such as the scientific method, engineering, healthcare etc have there own set of technical terms and well defined definitions.

I really like Iain's Martial Map approach, it puts things in the right context. There is a lot of misunderstanding and misappropriation of ideas in the martial arts where inappropriate concepts are applied in the wrong context. Re-invention of violence is just one result of this, leading to "self defence" applications that are only practical in a dojo or against an opponent who also studied the same martial art.
 

Th0mas

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Semantic terminology is a cheap way of controlling the conversation by putting nuance where you want it and away from where they do.

So if kung fu is technically asian crap. Then you have just decided how it is percieved.

That is why people go head to head about tems like self defence. So that they can become the expert of the terminology. Irrelevant to their experience in the actual subject.
We all know that goes on.. But if you are not clear about what the problem statement is, how can you be sure you have come to an applicable solution?

How do you differentiate between training for competition vs dojo vs self protection if you do not clearly articulate what the technique is for and the correct contex in which you should apply it?

Most of us probably have multiple reasons for why they train in martial arts. To ensure you don't apply strategies only suitable for the tight constraints of the rule sets for Competition, or grappling on the mat with your dojo friends, to a genuine assault outside a pub requires a real focus to ensure your natural response is appropriate and not counter productive.

It is not semantics if the nuance is critical to ensure your training is relevant.
 
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drop bear

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We all know that goes on.. But if you are not clear about what the problem statement is, how can you be sure you have come to an applicable solution?

How do you differentiate between training for competition vs dojo vs self protection if you do not clearly articulate what the technique is for and the correct contex in which you should apply it?

Most of us probably have multiple reasons for why they train in martial arts. To ensure you don't apply strategies only suitable for the tight constraints of the rule sets for Competition, or grappling on the mat with your dojo friends, to a genuine assault outside a pub requires a real focus to ensure your natural response is appropriate and not counter productive.

It is not semantics if the nuance is critical to ensure your training is relevant.

Above is exactly the issue.
 

Juany118

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We all know that goes on.. But if you are not clear about what the problem statement is, how can you be sure you have come to an applicable solution?

How do you differentiate between training for competition vs dojo vs self protection if you do not clearly articulate what the technique is for and the correct contex in which you should apply it?

Most of us probably have multiple reasons for why they train in martial arts. To ensure you don't apply strategies only suitable for the tight constraints of the rule sets for Competition, or grappling on the mat with your dojo friends, to a genuine assault outside a pub requires a real focus to ensure your natural response is appropriate and not counter productive.

It is not semantics if the nuance is critical to ensure your training is relevant.

I agree BUT I think you can use terms that do not result in problematic answers to questions if the Police show up. If you are learning a Martial Art or fighting system with self-defense in mind, simply refer to it as self-defense or self-protection. If you use certain terms, Street Fighting, Fighting you could wind up in trouble. In the U.S. some States actually have self defense laws that place a duty to retreat on a person being attacked in a public place and self-defense is only appropriate, under the law, if you do not have the opportunity to retreat. If the bad guy gets injured and you say "I trained in street fighting" or "fighting" when asked how you defended yourself it could create an impression that you were not retreating and instead looking for a fight.

Street fight can be a venue. Street fighting can be seen as a method of fighting, Street Fighter a type of fighter. All three however have negative connotations. That's why i usually suggest, regarding the differences in the Martial Arts as you note; Competition, Dojo etc. That the next term they use simply be "real life." This firmly conveys a neutral venue meaning. This way if they don't say what they should "self-defense", self-protection etc. the police will inevitably ask that follow up question what do you think will work out better for ya?

You "I took karate for street fighting."

Vs

You "I took Karate for real life situations.

Police: "what do you mean by 'I studied Karate for real life situations?'".

You: "oh, self defense."

The first one might not get you jacked up but it just looks bad.
 

Tez3

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Street fight can be a venue.

Pub car parks here in UK. They are used by the Travellers for their boxing fights which are surprising fair, they have females fighting sometimes too.
 

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