The notion that you have to throw/submit yourself in Aikido or get your wrist broken

[Alan Smithee]

I have found that “he can’t, it can’t, highly unlikely, and it doesn’t work that way “ is often followed by “except for, in that case and but, that’s different.”

Of course I might have felt otherwise four years into things. Heck, I haven’t had to control a violent offender in a couple of months now. Maybe things have changed.

He might trip

 

[jobo]

Wrong. You don't know in advance.

you cant know in advance that anything is going to work, not unless you have some sort of physic abilities

 

[Alan Smithee]

you cant know in advance that anything is going to work, not unless you have some sort of physic abilities

There's a difference. In the case of joint locks you can exclude success against the entire population of people same strength or above yourself, unless they slip, trip, or are feeling sick.

 

[jobo]

There's a difference. In the case of joint locks you can exclude success against the entire population of people same strength or above yourself, unless they slip, trip, or are feeling sick.

yes but your back to making a claim, that you have repeated refused to back up with any actual data.

if thats you opinion, i respect it, I know your wrong, but hell most of the world is wrong, it doesn't make you a bad person, but your passing your opinion off as fact with out presenting any evidence

do you have any actual evidence, data or anything but a few anecdotes ?

 

[Buka]

He might trip

He might indeed. Sometimes it’s even written up that way in a report.

 

[Flying Crane]

The defender, the one who is actually applying a joint lock, does NOT strike in Akikai Aikido.

Is this your conclusion because you’ve never seen it on YouTube?

 

[Flying Crane]

No I didn't. I wrote 99% won't work against someone the same physical strength as yourself.

Where did you come up with 99%?

 

[Flying Crane]

I like chocolate ice cream best. My tastes are simple. I don’t go for the Rocky Roads and stuff.

 

[Alan Smithee]

yes but your back to making a claim, that you have repeated refused to back up with any actual data.

if thats you opinion, i respect it, I know your wrong, but hell most of the world is wrong, it doesn't make you a bad person, but your passing your opinion off as fact with out presenting any evidence

do you have any actual evidence, data or anything but a few anecdotes ?

why dont you try it. ask someone who's strong as you or stronger to resist your joint manipulation without telling him about it. Or don't even tell him you want to joint lock, just ask to grapple with full resistance. Whatever you want. See how far you it will take you.

 

[punisher73]

Men those are offspring hybrid styles of Aikido. Still don't think it will work

Aikikai is the main branch of Aikido and was continued on by his son. Morihei Saito maintains and teaches aikido the way he learned it from Ueshiba and contains atemi/strikes. Seidokan is a combining of Aikikai and Tohei's ki principles.

If you are interested, get "Budo" by Ueshiba. The pictures all show Ueshiba striking into vital points before the technique. Just because a school may choose not to teach something, it does NOT mean that it is not part of the system or taught.

 

[Alan Smithee]

Aikikai is the main branch of Aikido and was continued on by his son. Morihei Saito maintains and teaches aikido the way he learned it from Ueshiba and contains atemi/strikes. Seidokan is a combining of Aikikai and Tohei's ki principles.

If you are interested, get "Budo" by Ueshiba. The pictures all show Ueshiba striking into vital points before the technique. Just because a school may choose not to teach something, it does NOT mean that it is not part of the system or taught.

Tohei branched off a little bit. Some striking is part of Aikido. Striking does not however solve anything with regards to rotating someones wrist. Again, if you fight someone who's weaker than you or incompetent, anything works. If not, you're gonna get stripped and better think out something else, like a throw or new strikes.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

For any joint lock, you have to be able to change the angle according your opponent's respond.

For example, your wrist lock should be able to handle at least 3 different angles.

downward -> horizontal -> pulling

When your opponent

- raises his elbow, you change your downward pressure to horizontal pressure.
- turns his body, you change your horizontal pressure to horizontal pulling.

 

[Alan Smithee]

For any joint lock, you have to be able to change the angle according your opponent's respond.

For example, your wrist lock should be able to handle at least 3 different angles.

downward -> horizontal -> pulling

When your opponent

- raises his elbow, you change your downward pressure to horizontal pressure.
- turns his body, you change your horizontal pressure to horizontal pulling.

Have you tried it against a full resisting, equally strong/big opponent?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Have you tried it against a full resisting, equally strong/big opponent?

Yes! Many times. Joint locking is just like throwing, you have to learn it in pairs (in the opposite direction). When you try to lock your opponent in one direction, if he resists, you borrow his resistance force, and lock him into the opposite direction. It's just like if I pull you and you resists, I then borrow your resistance force and push you. My pushing may only need very little force.

 

[Alan Smithee]

Yes! Many times. Joint locking is just like throwing, you have to learn it in pairs (in the opposite direction). When you try to lock your opponent in one direction, if he resists, you borrow his resistance force, and lock him into the opposite direction. It's just like if I pull you and you resists, I then borrow your resistance force and push you. My pushing may only need very little force.

I'm familiar with joint manipulation after 4 years

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm familiar with joint manipulation after 4 years

You can learn all 40 joint locking in 6 hours. It may take you full life time to master it.

 

[punisher73]

Tohei branched off a little bit. Some striking is part of Aikido. Striking does not however solve anything with regards to rotating someones wrist. Again, if you fight someone who's weaker than you or incompetent, anything works. If not, you're gonna get stripped and better think out something else, like a throw or new strikes.

From your responses, I don't think that you have ever trained with someone who understood their time and place or had enough knowledge to address your concerns.

For the record, I am NOT saying that any technique is 100%. But, your objections in the scenarios given don't give the information that should have been shown on how to address that.

For example, "striking does not solve anything with regards to rotating someone's wrist". Please elaborate on HOW you got to that point. If you think that you just punched someone and then decided to grab their wrist for a lock, then you don't understand the application of a wrist lock.

 

[Alan Smithee]

It's just like if I pull you and you resists, I then borrow your resistance force and push you. My pushing may only need very little force.

That makes no sense physically, and it did not work for me or anyone else. But I'm sure you had full live resistance in a traditional martial arts class so I take your word for it

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I'm familiar with joint manipulation after 4 years

Here is an example of:

downward -> horizontal -> pulling.

Here is an example to borrow your opponent's resistance, and change your force direction:

elbow lock -> shoulder lock.

 

[Alan Smithee]

From your responses, I don't think that you have ever trained with someone who understood their time and place or had enough knowledge to address your concerns.

For the record, I am NOT saying that any technique is 100%. But, your objections in the scenarios given don't give the information that should have been shown on how to address that.

For example, "striking does not solve anything with regards to rotating someone's wrist". Please elaborate on HOW you got to that point. If you think that you just punched someone and then decided to grab their wrist for a lock, then you don't understand the application of a wrist lock.

Because the persons reaction to you grapping the wrist won't change. You do realize that you are in a minority with your view? Why do you think that is? Why isn't there the same bias against Judo and BJJ? Have you ever pondered that?

I have nothing against Aikido. Certainly not the only unrealistic martial art, but the disconnect from reality is unfortunately even worse than what is usual for TMA