ppko
Master Black Belt
What would you say the most common way people would attack you. I think for men it would be a push, for women and children a grab
The most common way to be attacked
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Genin Andrew
Guest
yes i agree,for the standard thug/average joe type they would start with a push shove style attack. I'm sure we've all seen it once in school or at a party somewhere.Some tough guy starts talking smack and then does the big push while still running his mouth.Its quite funny to watch,the "tough" guy either has no intention to "properly" strike,is afraid or is unsure of how to attack,so he keeps "talking" and throws in a few pushes.
And for those that have witnessed this behaviour you would know that it never really escalates into anything more.The victim either pushes back and calls the attacker some mean names and walks away and has another beer or the attacker's mates rock up and throw in some more name calling and they call it a night.Quite funny.But unfortunatley its not always like that and some serious damage does occur as a result of the "push".
But i'm not complaining.If a 'shove' is todays standard attack then i am quite comfortable i could select 1 or 2 of a possible 50 different defensive techniques to counter it and put my attacker to the ground,as would most MAists.
much respect
-andrew
And for those that have witnessed this behaviour you would know that it never really escalates into anything more.The victim either pushes back and calls the attacker some mean names and walks away and has another beer or the attacker's mates rock up and throw in some more name calling and they call it a night.Quite funny.But unfortunatley its not always like that and some serious damage does occur as a result of the "push".
But i'm not complaining.If a 'shove' is todays standard attack then i am quite comfortable i could select 1 or 2 of a possible 50 different defensive techniques to counter it and put my attacker to the ground,as would most MAists.
much respect
-andrew
Bammx2
2nd Black Belt
depends......
Muggings:from behind,blind side or with multiple assailants.
(and thats male or female targets)
kidanap(child) or sexual assault: from behind (most common)
ego(bar fight or bully): push or shove from the front.looking more for the humiliation factor.
it really depends on the attackers thought and advantage point....If a person is SERIOUS about fighting,they will just walk up and start hitting.They don't the target to have a chance to prepare.
BUT....there the occasional suprises.....
Muggings:from behind,blind side or with multiple assailants.
(and thats male or female targets)
kidanap(child) or sexual assault: from behind (most common)
ego(bar fight or bully): push or shove from the front.looking more for the humiliation factor.
it really depends on the attackers thought and advantage point....If a person is SERIOUS about fighting,they will just walk up and start hitting.They don't the target to have a chance to prepare.
BUT....there the occasional suprises.....
I agree with this break down of attempted attacks. Likewise with Genin Andrew's and with ppko's. From my experience this has been the case in many that I've witnessed/experienced (male only of courseBammx2 said:
). Most attacks of course rely upon the intent. If it's a male "I'm gonna kick your ****" kinda testosterone thingy then ya, a few pushes to build up confidence and intimidation before they finally start swinging. However! I've seen just straight off the cuff roundhouse punches without warning(s) and then non stop swinging til the guy is down. For street muggings then yeah, it's gonna be from behind or from a blindside. No reason to inform of your intent because things might not go as they planned.
Women to women I've seen the same pushy-shovey type of confrontations until one of them starts to swing and then cat-fight! Meeoooarrroooww, hisss, spit spit...ACK-(hairball)....(just kidding ladies
)Experience and environmental awareness will help in t'warting <sic> any attack. My MA training has gotten to the point that I don't let anyone touch me... this is to say I initiate first contact by pushing their hands away from me when push comes to shove.
Bammx2
2nd Black Belt
Ack-(hairball)
:rofl:
:rofl:
ppko said:
I think its pretty hard to predict how someone will be attacked. Being as prepared for as many situations as possible would probably be your best bet. Will we ever be 100% prepared?? No, but by working different attacks as well as senarios, will raise your odds.
Mike
ppko said:
A push is really a primal aggressive extention of the interview process. The guy is trying to see if you are willing to continue this confrontation and he is trying to assert dominance by intimidation. It is really a way to see if you will initiate a fight with aggressive instigation. On a primal level it is a dominance exercise by subconsciencely saying I will have your space and I will force you out of it.
Flatlander
Grandmaster
That's a neat insight. I think this makes a lot of sense. So what's the 'correct' response? Can we consider the push an attack, or is it merely a test?OULobo said:
kenpo tiger
Senior Master
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Anyone who invades my personal space is attacking me, whether it's verbal or physical. How verbal? If I'm trying to make a point and someone interrupts.
As to women fighting each other, usually we touch gloves first before whaling away in the ring.
As to being attacked by a man - or potentially attacked. Each time it's been an approach from the front, with the attacker trying to verbally and physically intimidate me. No grab or push, just invading personal space. Hasn't been successful the past two times, thank goodness, and I haven't stuck around to find out what the follow-up attack would have been. KT :samurai:
As to women fighting each other, usually we touch gloves first before whaling away in the ring.
As to being attacked by a man - or potentially attacked. Each time it's been an approach from the front, with the attacker trying to verbally and physically intimidate me. No grab or push, just invading personal space. Hasn't been successful the past two times, thank goodness, and I haven't stuck around to find out what the follow-up attack would have been. KT :samurai:
flatlander said:
That is the magic question. It really is dependent on your mentality on coonfrontation. I don't like jail cells, so unless he takes a poke at me, I just let it go. Sometimes I turn it into a battle of a less physical level and I just start laghing at him like his little pee-pee is too small to let him handle himself in a more civil manner.
Flatlander
Grandmaster
I'll go out on a limb here and posit that the response will be determined by ego, when discussing a 'push' between two people of the same sex.
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OULobo said:
Wouldn't this rub pepper into the confrontation--laughting at him? I don't think this would help the situation, rather escalate it. Can't you say something, like hey dude, ease off, nothing to go to jail over. TW
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Firona
Guest
If the persons intent is to attack you there could be any number of outcomes in my opinion. If someone is after your money or is out to get you then they will attack with whatever they have but when its just an arguement gone awhry or a "schoolyard bully" then it is always the shove. I think the mentallity behind it is when you push someone its about making them run away, if you hit someone then the fight is "serious" Most bullies and common tough guys are afraid of getting "serious" because they have probably never done it before.
satans.barber
Master Black Belt
ppko said:
Police statistics in the UK show that the most common (reported) attack is a left handed lapel grab followed by one or more right handed punches to the face.
Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to do 20 reps of Lone Kimono before bed...
Ian.
G
Genin Andrew
Guest
Thats a good point. I think the schoolyard bully approach to a fight with his liptalk and his shoving technique is just to say "watch your back,or i'll push you harder next time".He doesnt really want to hurt you because he is afraid of the consequences ie: expelled from school or a bit of jail time.Its an ego dominance thing that the bully must execute a shove often to keep his confidence and "superiority" in tact.Firona said:
But then ypu get the less intelligent guys who do wanna hurt you,not because they can or have a reason to but because they are too stupid to identify or understand the consequences that will follow their actions...sadly its these "less intelligent" guys that tend to cause the most damage and fear.
"Getting "serious" because they have probably never done it before."
This really applies to the 16-17 yr old who is at a time in life where he really feels he has become a man and needs to prove himself,never been in a fight but feels he is not truly a "man" untill he has been in a few brawls...yes its a sad mentality...I guess losing this mindset is another good part of growing up
Trent
Green Belt
First off, should it truly be believed that every verbal interruption is an "attack" or intrusion of personal space I believe there are other issues at work. During a heated exchange, I would have to agree, but in routine conversations or discussions it appears some ego may be involved in that belief. And indeed, this is not a personal attack (and is not my intent, but food for thought), or judgment, merely an observation of past individuals with the same mindset; further, I interview folks for a living and do not make the observation lightly or without real world application and consequences of conclusions.
Secondly, it is exactly correct in my past dealings that pushing, while certainly a minor form of battery (the actual assault is already occuring), is not done to inflict physical injury, but to assert dominance and escalate the situation without going to the level of blows. It is usually done when someone doesn't really wish to fight, and hopes the other backs down before the exchange starts.
A grab without an instant follow-up strike is only done to someone who is not physcially respected and as another intimidation factor to force compliance. Usually, women, children, adolescents and small men, except for grappling of course, but we're talking common, general attacks.
Lastly, the most common strike I've witnessed, or been the target of initially, is the looping right punch (from surprise, or after a misdirection), and the front kick to the groin after an upper body movement in an attempt to distract attention.
Secondly, it is exactly correct in my past dealings that pushing, while certainly a minor form of battery (the actual assault is already occuring), is not done to inflict physical injury, but to assert dominance and escalate the situation without going to the level of blows. It is usually done when someone doesn't really wish to fight, and hopes the other backs down before the exchange starts.
A grab without an instant follow-up strike is only done to someone who is not physcially respected and as another intimidation factor to force compliance. Usually, women, children, adolescents and small men, except for grappling of course, but we're talking common, general attacks.
Lastly, the most common strike I've witnessed, or been the target of initially, is the looping right punch (from surprise, or after a misdirection), and the front kick to the groin after an upper body movement in an attempt to distract attention.
TigerWoman said:
In a way, but if this situation has gotten this far already, then I have already tried to defuse it or know that it is useless to try and defuse. At the same time it shows that I am above physical confrontation and it baits him to strike while witnesses are present. If the man has already pushed me, usually telling him I don't want to fight isn't going to de-escalate.
Trent
Green Belt
OULobo said:
Yeah, he's checking your oil, and seeing how you react while at the same time working his courage up to strike you should he deem it in his best interests at the time. Call it a male dominance tactic.
Laughing at him is not "egging him on" in the traditional sense, and is a good technique. It shows you don't think much of his physical threat and implies you could easily handle him, while at the same time turning the table and forcing him to escalate the situation. He doesn't really wish to do so, or he would have already popped you. Should the guy think he can take you after your small chuckle and wide grin, he will immediately move in again to strike. Don't even wait at that point. As soon as he moves in a second time, it won't be for a push, the decision has been made, more often than not.
It must also be remembered that he actually layed hands on you in an aggressive manner (i.e., battery) and all you did in response was a dry laugh. You have bumped it down a level, but saved your "face" and forced him to disengage or de-escalate. At that point, he may safely disengage and have some respect as he did make physical contact in an offensive manner and had no response. Ego satisfied unless he's something else is working in the situation, or just decided he can take you from the push.
OULobo said:
Well, generally if a guy is (non-verbally) trying to say that... I'll non-verbally reply back to him "You can have this space because I'll no longer be in it!" by simply turning around and walking away. It would be extremely unwise for him to continue forcing the issue by chasing after me and to continue trying to intimiate me with this adolecent snot-nosed, drippy-pants, little kid method of saying I'm better than you. A guy who does that or acts that way insults my intelligence and I'll have nothing to do with him. Again it would be wise that while he's in this mode he has nothing to do with me.
I know that their ego hates this walking away reaction because it helps them prove nothing. They can (and think upon why they are doing so...) call me a coward/chicken/wimp/and other expletives but it will still not prove to them (or anyone else) that they can take me. Honestly... neither they (or I) want to find out. Because I simply detest jail cells.
:asian:
p.s. good insight OU
