The Meaning of Jitae Poomsae

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by puunui, Jan 20, 2011.

  1. puunui

    puunui Senior Master

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    Messages:
    4,378
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The 1975 Taekwondo poomsae textbook describes Jitae as follows:
    "According to Oriental belief, all living things come from and return
    to the earth. The earth is indeed the origin and terminal of life.
    Living things as well as all the natural phenomena of the earth
    originate mainly from the changes and form of the earth. Poomsae Jitae
    is the movement which applies these features and properties of the
    earth. The key point of this Poomsae lies in the movements which are
    derived from the harmony of implicitly welling power and strong
    muscles, just as the universal mind of the earth lies in the
    implicitness and the vigor of life."

    The new Kukkiwon Textbook describes Jitae as follows (very
    different from the older explanation):
    "The word 'Jitae' means a man standing on the ground with the two
    feet, looking over the sky. A man on the earth represents the way of
    struggling for human life, such as kicking, treading and jumping on
    the ground. Therefore, the poomsae symbolizes various aspects
    occurring in the course of human being's struggle for existence. . . .
    and the poomsae line signifies a man standing on the earth to spring
    up toward the heaven."

    Jitae is the poomsae for 6th Dan, and the Kukkiwon promotional
    regulations state that those who are 30 or older are eligible for
    promotion to this dan. Those who are Kukkiwon 6th Dan in their
    30's are those who started at a relatively young age, usually in
    elementary school, and after 20 or more years of hard training, find
    themselves at the peak of their ability, when maturity that can only
    come with age meets one's physical prime, and decline. Having
    proven himself physically, as well as having undergone the ten fold
    increase at the 5th Dan level, the 6th Dan is, in my opinion, the age
    at which the best instructors, and best coaches show themselves.

    6th Dan coaches no longer feel that need to keep up or compete
    with the athletes they are entrusted with, and this frees up to a
    certain extent the natural competitiveness that can exist between a
    younger coach and his elite athletes. Our best coaches in the US have
    generally been those who, after a long competitive career, now have
    turned their attention to developing athletes. Master Sang Lee was in
    his 30's when he began coaching the US National Team, as was Master
    Dae Sung Lee and Master Han Won Lee.

    Even in Korea, if you look at the elite teams, we see that the coaches
    sitting in the chairs are those who are in their 30's. GM KIM Se
    Hyuk was in his 30's when he was the 1988 Korean Olympic
    coach, and his successor is Master HAM Joon, the person who sits
    in the chair for the Samsung S1 players.

    The Taekwondo pioneers who created the Palgwae and Yudanja
    poomsae were mostly 6th Dan in their 30's when they worked together
    as a committee.

    If there is one quality that distinguishes a 6th Dan from lower dans,
    it is the intuitive ability to do the right thing at the right moment.
    This is the coach who can sum up an opponent's entire game after less
    than one round and instantly give the type of advice that will defeat
    that opponent. This is the instructor who can take any student and in
    the space of five minutes deal with whatever challenge that particular
    student is facing with a response that is nothing short of
    inspirational. It is almost as if whatever the 6th Dan does, works.

    The 6th Dan is a transition period, going from the mental lessons of
    the middle dans, to the spiritual lessons of the upper dans. It is
    also the half way point, in terms of time in grade in the journey from
    white belt to beyond 9th Dan. This is why the poomsae line of Jitae
    signifies a man standing on the earth to spring up toward the heaven,
    because having gone through the physical and mental demands of the
    art, he can intuitively see and feel what the journey lies ahead,
    which is to take it to the next level.

    So we can see that the taekwondo journey, as mapped out within the
    poomsae created by the pioneers, is a journey of hope and of self-
    discovery, where each step builds upon the lessons learned at the
    lower levels. To a certain extent, one must have a good master who
    can guide the student through the various levels, and certain lessons
    can only be truly understood by those who have walked the path, but
    all can enhance their trip by taking heed of the sign posts as laid
    out by the pioneers. And if you wish to honor them or show your
    respect, then you will practice the poomsae as they were intended
    to be practiced, with the proper feeling and philosophy behind the
    movements.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. d1jinx

    d1jinx Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2009
    Messages:
    1,390
    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Location:
    all-ova
    This is my current and favorite!
     
  3. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Stevenage, Herts, UK
    As I posted in the other thread, Jitae is my least favourite Yudanja poomsae. Maybe I'm just not "getting it", but it feels like a collection of movements just thrown together to me. Very random...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Saphreal

    Saphreal White Belt

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2018
    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Great post!
     
  5. TrueJim

    TrueJim Master Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2014
    Messages:
    1,006
    Likes Received:
    364
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Virginia
    [​IMG]
     
  6. dvcochran

    dvcochran Master Black Belt

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Southeast
    Excellent. May I use this?
     
  7. Jaeimseu

    Jaeimseu 2nd Black Belt

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    793
    Likes Received:
    191
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Location:
    Austin, Texas, USA
    I’m fairly certain that Puuinui is no longer on Martial Talk. He is generally very much about the dissemination of correct information, especially as regards Kukkiwon Taekwondo.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. dvcochran

    dvcochran Master Black Belt

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Southeast
    Perform the very slow moves on the first line at full speed and it flows much better. One of my favorite Yudanja forms.
     
  9. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Stevenage, Herts, UK
    But in doing so one makes major mistakes in the poomsae performance (from a competition or grading perspective).
     
  10. dvcochran

    dvcochran Master Black Belt

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Southeast
    Agree, but I am trying to understand the form beyond the superficial competition level. Correct if I am wrong but I think you are at a higher Dan level. I am at the point I am trying to find a meaning beyond just doing the moves. A serious issue I have with the Taeguek poomsae. IMHO
     
  11. Gnarlie

    Gnarlie Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2011
    Messages:
    1,866
    Likes Received:
    419
    Trophy Points:
    123
    Location:
    Germany
    Lol @ superficial competition level. Not the words I would have chosen for high level competition poomsae.

    It's "Taegeuk", by the way, and Jitae is not one of the Taegeuk poomsae.

    If you have an issue with lack of meaning to the movements, that's on you. There's plenty of information out there.


    Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
     
  12. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Stevenage, Herts, UK
    I don't know your Dan, but I'm a 6th Dan Kukkiwon, 7th Dan Changmookwan if that helps.

    To be honest, I've stopped worrying about finding meaning in the poomsae. Sometimes it feels like the shape of the movements is really represented by what the pattern officially means, sometimes it feels just arbitrary. For me, poomsae is just a vehicle for self-improvement in Taekwondo basic movements.
     
  13. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2006
    Messages:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    141
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Location:
    Stevenage, Herts, UK
    I'd took them to be two separate points. He's trying to find the meaning in all poomsae, but specifically struggling in general with the Taegeuk series. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how it came across to me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. dvcochran

    dvcochran Master Black Belt

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Southeast
    That is one description of poomsae that is valid. If a person is required to learn Kukkiwon poomsae to progress, either purely by rank or through personal growth only, I do think it is important to learn the patterns as defined by Kukkiwon. That said, I have always considered myself fortunate to have a very broad base to learn from. As hard as I try to support and see value in some of the KKW poomsae movements, it gets tough at times. That is to the point I was trying to make. Digging into the poomsae from one's own perspective and does it reconcile with the originators.
    I am scheduled to test in April for 5th Dan Kukkiwon. My GM asked me last week about testing again for my 7th Dan MDK which, for now I have balked on. I have never saw myself as a 7th Dan even though I am at the right age (55) and know I have the credentials. I have to do some soul searching. I don't feel like a 7th Dan so I will have to work on the analytics of it and decide whether I should feel like it.
     
  15. dvcochran

    dvcochran Master Black Belt

    • Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    1,439
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    108
    Location:
    Southeast
    If you have links that explain the specific meaning of each individual move in the Yudanja poomsae as defined by Kukkiwon, please send me the links. I think we are on the same page; it is behoovent of each student to learn their interpretation and reconcile with the original meaning.
     
  16. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

    • LifeTime Supporting Member
    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2009
    Messages:
    15,567
    Likes Received:
    3,565
    Trophy Points:
    308
    Location:
    Pueblo West, CO
    Maybe, maybe not. There are definitely differences in how movements are performed by those who are primarily interested in competition and those who are more focused on self-defense applications of the movements. And I've met a number of top-notch poomsae competitors who haven't the slightest understanding of the principles underlying the movements.
    So, yeah, that's pretty superficial.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page

Search tags for this page
jitae meaning
,

jitae poomsae meaning