The K is on the Way

[Jaeimseu]

Manny, thanks for the good post, but sir i have one observation i would love to get yours and others opinion on. You will fight(ie self defense) the way you train. If you train and sparr with out doing hand techs to the head, you will not do them in a fight for your life. Why do you handicap your self and your students by not giving them the full experiance? If all you ever practice is kicks and punches below the neck, and never any throws locks and sweeps in a sparring situation against a live opponent, how can you be so sure you will be able to use it in a real fight?

Its not the techniques that are handicapping TKD as a martial art, its the rules. Its a unavoidable and unbreakable rule, you will fight like you train. Train to attack all targets using all techniques and youll do that in a fight. Train to avoid techs and targets and thats exactly what you will do. (insert video here of TKD and Karate people fighting with there hands at there arses)

Do you train with full contact strikes to all targets using all the techniques in your system against a live resisting partner?

 

[Kframe]

Jaeimseu, Yes and no. Full contact yes, but not full power. When we heavy spar it tops out at around 75-80%. We are expected to use every single tech we have been shown.

Again, i ask, if you never practice your techniques against a live resisting opponent, how can you be sure they work? When you do things with a compliant uke, it is not a reflection of how it will be done in a fight. In fights, that pretty lock or strike combo or take down will look ugly and disgusting, but if you practice it with live resistance, youll be able to apply the fundamentals of the technique despite the resistance, and despite it looking ugly and gross.

 

[Manny]

Manny, thanks for the good post, but sir i have one observation i would love to get yours and others opinion on. You will fight(ie self defense) the way you train. If you train and sparr with out doing hand techs to the head, you will not do them in a fight for your life. Why do you handicap your self and your students by not giving them the full experiance? If all you ever practice is kicks and punches below the neck, and never any throws locks and sweeps in a sparring situation against a live opponent, how can you be so sure you will be able to use it in a real fight?


Its not the techniques that are handicapping TKD as a martial art, its the rules. Its a unavoidable and unbreakable rule, you will fight like you train. Train to attack all targets using all techniques and youll do that in a fight. Train to avoid techs and targets and thats exactly what you will do. (insert video here of TKD and Karate people fighting with there hands at there arses)

Thank you for asking me!! One thing is to do sparring inside the dojang and other thing is defending ourselves on the streets, that's why I focus alot on self defense techs. The self defense techs I teach have amoung other things: grabs, take downs, sweeps,arm bars, locks (shoulder,elbow,wrist and fingers too) some trows (not many Iam not a judoka),punches (to the head/face/neck), palm strikes, finger strikes (eyes), elbows,knees,kicks offcourse.

As you may see I teach not only kicking but some aikido techs,some judo techs and some kenpo techs.

You must realize that my self defense is controled, I can not blow a knee cap or dislocate an elbow for example to my srudents or partners, I can not make a concusion using an elbow to the temple, I can not visiusly crush a windpipe, I don't have to kill my students or partners, however I can be a little rough without compromising life.

I have not yet a single martial rts dojo or academy where people hurt so badly the others, yes I have seen accidentes like broken ribs for example for too heavy contact, I experimented on my a well knock out and been huirts before without compromising my life.

I have not seen till these days a sparring match inside a dojo where a person is killed.

Sorry if I went to long. Can I have the ability to crush a windpipe with a karate chop? Yes, can I popo out an efe with a spear hand? you bet, can I drop a guy with a couple of solid low kicks to the tights? I think I can do it for sure!! Can I break an elbow with an arm bar offcourse my friend.

And to finish this.... WTF Sparring or WUKO Sparring does not allow the above mentioned for security sake!

Self defense is a big part inside my class.

Manny

 

[Jaeimseu]

Jaeimseu, Yes and no. Full contact yes, but not full power. When we heavy spar it tops out at around 75-80%. We are expected to use every single tech we have been shown.

Again, i ask, if you never practice your techniques against a live resisting opponent, how can you be sure they work? When you do things with a compliant uke, it is not a reflection of how it will be done in a fight. In fights, that pretty lock or strike combo or take down will look ugly and disgusting, but if you practice it with live resistance, youll be able to apply the fundamentals of the technique despite the resistance, and despite it looking ugly and gross.

You throw strikes to vital targets at 80% power?

I totally agree that without a live resisting opponent your training will be less effective (assuming the purpose of your training is fighting). WTF players do this. They don't punch the face because the rules prohibit face punches. It's not designed to simulate a real fight. Don't confuse one aspect of the art with the whole art. Taekwondo players make up a very small percentage of all taekwondoin.

 

[Gorilla]

Tkd and Karate fighters fight based on the rule set....

NONE!!!! Of the elite athletes think that they are doing self defense when they compete...

Self defense is a completely different thing!

 

[Gorilla]

http://www.insidethegames.biz/blogs...st-foot-forward-in-race-for-the-2020-olympics

Interesting article and now with wrestling out of the Olympics. I think that Karate has a real shot in 2020!

 

[chinto]

I find that I am hoping that Karate is not made an olympic sport. I think it will lead to problems and political games and end up damaging the art badly! that is my opinion, and you may disagree if you wish. I think that the olympic inclusion of TKD had damaged TKD badly. again you may disagree, to each his own.

 

[Makalakumu]

I find that I am hoping that Karate is not made an olympic sport. I think it will lead to problems and political games and end up damaging the art badly! that is my opinion, and you may disagree if you wish. I think that the olympic inclusion of TKD had damaged TKD badly. again you may disagree, to each his own.

On the other hand, one of the things that karate based systems really struggle with is the demands of mastering so many disparate skills. With TKD, you have poomse, basics, one steps, sparring, breaking, self defense sequences, and all of the esoteric things on top of that. Many of these aspects don't work well together. For TKD, Olympic style sparring gives the art focus. It allows elite levels of competition in one aspect. It brings people from all over the world together to enjoy the art.

For purists, the focus on sparring probably drives them nuts, but from the outside looking in, I think it probably makes TKD a more attractive martial art.

For karate, I have no idea how it would look in the Olympics. Any kind of sparring sort of defeats the purpose, especially if you start allowing the full range of applications in the kata for competition. Karate has a focus, IMO, that is kata. It would be a big change for many styles of karate to change their focus to sparring. Perhaps JKA style sparring rules would mesh with the Olympics format, but this would only alienate certain styles of karate. I can't see traditional Goju or Uechi Ryu competing in that.

After further though, I also don't think modifying TKD sparring rules would work in the end. If you allowed punches to the head and maybe some sweeps, we've simply made a more eclectic form of kickboxing.

Maybe kickboxing should be an Olympic sport? Broaden the rules to allow thai boxing strikes. Throw in some sweeps. Don't call it karate though...

 

[Gorilla]

WKF KARATE will be in the Olympics Kumite no Kata!

 

[Curlykarateka]

Much as I think sport karate is kinda watered down, I would be prepared to sink to that level for the oppurtunity to represent my country.