The K is on the Way

[SPX]

Well I won't go into the meaning of "hard" and "soft" styles, but I actually think that Gorilla and I are now in agreement on the situation that we understand what each other is talking about.

All I'm saying is don't be surprised when you walk into a Shotokan dojo and the sparring looks like this (yes, even with the adults):

But by acknowledging that, that doesn't mean that I don't also understand that this exists:

(As a matter of fact, I own the "Art of War" DVD. It's one of the main things that got me interested in Shotokan in the first place.)

 

[Tez3]

SPX don't assume what is common in America is common around the world and because it's the Olympics we are discussing it very much matters what karate is in other countries.

 

[Gorilla]

SPX..you could find all three of those things happening in our school depending on the level that you are at...our comp team trains trains like the third video...our comp team he headed by our Sensei who is a 6 time National Team member NKF have another past Sr/JR National team member that trains with us...current JR National team member and several National medalists..allot of international exp...

 

[Manny]

I'm sure you would agree that full contact sparring (even just to the body) is unusual for a Shoto school.

If that's how you guys roll, then that sounds pretty good. Though personally, I'm not overly interested in training that way. More of medium contact kind of guy.









"Bruises not breaks" is my motto.

My motto to. In TKD I have recieved very heavy contact. a broke noose, broke theet,a nice K.O. and those were the day the the only thing we used was shin pads and no more.

Today the new students does not like full contact or at least medium/heavy contact but as you may know if you practice contact sport you will have bruisses and hard blows.

Manny

 

[SPX]

SPX don't assume what is common in America is common around the world and because it's the Olympics we are discussing it very much matters what karate is in other countries.

Well I have acknowledged earlier in the thread that from what I've heard the situation is a little different in Europe. Although I've heard, on forums just like this one, that there is plenty of the same stuff going on all around the world, in America, in Europe, even in Japan. . .

 

[SPX]

SPX..you could find all three of those things happening in our school depending on the level that you are at...our comp team trains trains like the third video...our comp team he headed by our Sensei who is a 6 time National Team member NKF have another past Sr/JR National team member that trains with us...current JR National team member and several National medalists..allot of international exp...

Sounds like a good school. Unfortunately, Vegas is bit of a far drive for me.

 

[SPX]

My motto to. In TKD I have recieved very heavy contact. a broke noose, broke theet,a nice K.O. and those were the day the the only thing we used was shin pads and no more.

Today the new students does not like full contact or at least medium/heavy contact but as you may know if you practice contact sport you will have bruisses and hard blows.

Manny

Yeah, I have a fear of getting injured, especially since I don't have health insurance. Both financially, and from a standpoint that injuries can linger for the rest of your life, I'd rather just avoid them.

 

[SPX]

So a little update on what we were talking about earlier. . .

I went to the sparring/fighting class at the Shotokan school tonight. I sparred with the instructor and he whooped my ***. I thought it was awesome. I wish that class wasn't just one night a week or else I'd be totally sold.

I'm a terrible fighter.

 

[Gorilla]

So a little update on what we were talking about earlier. . .

I went to the sparring/fighting class at the Shotokan school tonight. I sparred with the instructor and he whooped my ***. I thought it was awesome. I wish that class wasn't just one night a week or else I'd be totally sold.

I'm a terrible fighter.

I admire your self awareness and ability to critique yourself. Martial Artisits who can do that will always get better!

 

[SPX]

Well, you know, it is what it is.

That's actually one of the main reasons I've been looking for a competition oriented school, to gain a better understanding of not only the mechanics of how to do techniques, but how to use them against a real attacker. So I'm looking for more sparring, less kata.

 

[Gorilla]

Kata is a part of sparing training...we do it every Wednesday...the focus and emphasis on technique are important.

 

[Tez3]

Kata is a part of sparing training...we do it every Wednesday...the focus and emphasis on technique are important.

Absolutely! Kata is self defence, not sure what peole think it's for otherwise. You can spar well of course without kata but with kata you do it even better and why wouldn't you want to be the best you can!

http://www.goju-karate.co.uk/index.php?page=shodan-neil-grove

Neil still practices kata btw.

 

[Kframe]

Im not sure why karate people are excited to see karate in the Olympics? Dont you guys see what it did to TKD? It took a great Self defense martial art, and turned it into martial sport. Why would you want your fine art watered down and diluted? The only thing the Olympics will bring karate is more membership and money, which is good till you find your no longer a martial art but martial sport..

Now before you go say, find the ITF TKD, well guess what, there is no ITF TKD in my state, they are not the same size or have the influence of WTF. So please dont let karate get diluted and watered down like TKD did.

 

[SPX]

Kata is a part of sparing training...we do it every Wednesday...the focus and emphasis on technique are important.

I said less kata, not no kata.

This school, right now, is basically 5 days a week on kata and basics, one day a week on sparring.

 

[Gorilla]

I said less kata, not no kata.

This school, right now, is basically 5 days a week on kata and basics, one day a week on sparring.

Yeah that's to lopsided we are the opposite.

 

[Gorilla]

You and I are on the opposite ends of the fence on this one...the Olympics was an add for TKD...people still practice all aspects of TKD as a Martial Art!...we do both WTF Tkd and WKF/NKF Karate...it will not hurt Karate it will be a positive add!!!!

Im not sure why karate people are excited to see karate in the Olympics? Dont you guys see what it did to TKD? It took a great Self defense martial art, and turned it into martial sport. Why would you want your fine art watered down and diluted? The only thing the Olympics will bring karate is more membership and money, which is good till you find your no longer a martial art but martial sport..

Now before you go say, find the ITF TKD, well guess what, there is no ITF TKD in my state, they are not the same size or have the influence of WTF. So please dont let karate get diluted and watered down like TKD did.

 

[Tez3]

Im not sure why karate people are excited to see karate in the Olympics? Dont you guys see what it did to TKD? It took a great Self defense martial art, and turned it into martial sport. Why would you want your fine art watered down and diluted? The only thing the Olympics will bring karate is more membership and money, which is good till you find your no longer a martial art but martial sport..

Now before you go say, find the ITF TKD, well guess what, there is no ITF TKD in my state, they are not the same size or have the influence of WTF. So please dont let karate get diluted and watered down like TKD did.

That's exactly how I feel.

 

[SPX]

Yeah that's to lopsided we are the opposite.

I'd even be cool with doing 2 and 2.

2 days a week on kata and basics, 2 days a week on sparring.

But pretty much all the schools that I've ever been a part of (whether TKD or karate) have spent almost all their time on things like line drills, kata, step-sparring, etc, with only a little time devoted to actual sparring against a live, dynamic attacker. And as a result, I'm not as good as I think I otherwise would've been if that hadn't been the case.

So now I'm trying to find a situation in which the priorities are a little different.

 

[Manny]

You and I are on the opposite ends of the fence on this one...the Olympics was an add for TKD...people still practice all aspects of TKD as a Martial Art!...we do both WTF Tkd and WKF/NKF Karate...it will not hurt Karate it will be a positive add!!!!

I am an old school TKdoing, yes Sport/Olimpic TKD has helped alot to enrole more people in the dojangs most of them kids who want to be the next champion, and believe TKD is one of the nices sports for a child to practice, TKD classes teach thos children a lot of values like respect,loyalti,good maners,etc,etc.

Well I must tell you that I don't like olimpic TKD at all, yes I see iot at the olimpics and maybe for a couple of tornaments local here in my town, in fact I've been a central and chair judge in a few tornaments but that's all.

Right now I have 6 white belts, a marroon belt and a blue belt and the class I teach them is TKD, the martial art of TKD, I teach them basics, kicking drills some hand techs, self defense, one steps,poomsae (kata) and yes we do light to medium contact sparring and definetivaly sometimes full contact with all the safety gear and yes we use the KKW/WTF sparring rules set (no hand tech to the head/face) but all our kicks and punches are well execuyed and done, we don't pull the punch or the kick, so where I want to go? Simply there are many TKD dojangs and classes that teach TKD as a whole not only a WTF/Sparring only.

So I don't think olimpics has damage the TKD as a MA, Olimpic TKD is nothing but a full contact sport where one can win with a well TKO or scoring points, that's all about olimpic TKD, in the other Hand TKD is more than sparring believe me.

Manny

 

[Kframe]

Manny, thanks for the good post, but sir i have one observation i would love to get yours and others opinion on. You will fight(ie self defense) the way you train. If you train and sparr with out doing hand techs to the head, you will not do them in a fight for your life. Why do you handicap your self and your students by not giving them the full experiance? If all you ever practice is kicks and punches below the neck, and never any throws locks and sweeps in a sparring situation against a live opponent, how can you be so sure you will be able to use it in a real fight?

Its not the techniques that are handicapping TKD as a martial art, its the rules. Its a unavoidable and unbreakable rule, you will fight like you train. Train to attack all targets using all techniques and youll do that in a fight. Train to avoid techs and targets and thats exactly what you will do. (insert video here of TKD and Karate people fighting with there hands at there arses)