The father of Mexican TKD speaks at last!

[Manny]

Here I will post a you tube video where Gran Master Dai Won Moon the father of TKD in Mexico speaks and makes two things: a) At last, he says TKD must return to it's roots as a martial art because, afther all the effort of Korean Authorities and the Olimpic movement TKD has lost it's identity and we must to return to the beutiful martial art and b) The creation of a kukiwon office in Mexico City fully apart of the WTF to take measures and help to any TKD sabon to get instruction and certification.

I hope Grand Master Moon will make cleaver movements upon these because he was one of the top Koreans around the world to put all his efforts towards olimpic tkd, but now I hope he will recapacitate and bring back the Korean Martial Art of TKD. Sorry the clkip is on spanish don't know if you can translate to English and give me your tougts abou it.

El Manny.

 

[Archtkd]

Here I will post a you tube video where Gran Master Dai Won Moon the father of TKD in Mexico speaks and makes two things: a) At last, he says TKD must return to it's roots as a martial art because, afther all the effort of Korean Authorities and the Olimpic movement TKD has lost it's identity and we must to return to the beutiful martial art and b) The creation of a kukiwon office in Mexico City fully apart of the WTF to take measures and help to any TKD sabon to get instruction and certification.

I hope Grand Master Moon will make cleaver movements upon these because he was one of the top Koreans around the world to put all his efforts towards olimpic tkd, but now I hope he will recapacitate and bring back the Korean Martial Art of TKD. Sorry the clkip is on spanish don't know if you can translate to English and give me your tougts abou it.

El Manny.

Manny I don't speak or understand Spanish, but your brief interpretation suggests GM Moon Dai- Won is doing lots of double-speak. He was and remains the main driver of pushing Olympic style taekwondo in Mexico and Central and South America in general. He is a die-hard card-carrying WTF pioneer in the region. Manny, is there some more context you could provide? Is he saying taekwondo has moved too far from what he might have sought:

 

[Manny]

GM Moon has did everithing to do TKD an aolimpic sport, he was one of the men involved in these, however in the video I posted he says Olimpics was not a good thing afther all because TKD has lost the true martiality to become a contact sport and martial art is fading away, that's why he is creating a Kukiwon office in Mexico City to return to the basisc in TKD and to retook the tkd as a martial art, so the tkd sabons in Mexico can obtain KUKKIWON crerifications and take curses/tests to become a better martial artists.

Sorry but as English is not my mother lenguaje is dificultt to me explain a lot of things.

El Manny

 

[marques]

"Dear Taekwondo masters and students,

I’m Dai Won Moon that brought the TKD to the Mexico 46 years ago. TKD has been my life and I worked to put the name of our(s) country at world level. I participated in the creation of the WTF and the Féderacion Mexicana de Taekwondo. The true essence of Taekwondo are the values that allowed to TKD a great diffusion and development in many countries. Due to this diffusion, it becomes an Olympic sport. But, ironically, emphasizing the sportive side it puts aside the true essence of TKD.

It is the moment to save the roots of TKD martial art. His virtues, his philosophy, his essence, to assure his survival in the future. Nowadays, I’m leading a commission to establish a Kukkiwon office in Mexico. To have (?) this office in Mexico allows us to re-take the roots of TKD, as well as other additional advantages. Kukkiwon goes further than an international certification. It is one institution that promote the teaching quality, due to excellence capacity programs (?). It allows to dignify and improve the performance of the TKD masters in Mexico.

Furthermore, it gives the opportunity to participate in the … festival …

…TKD belong to all TKD students.”

I don't master neither spanish, neither english, but I guess it can help.

 

[Archtkd]

"Dear Taekwondo masters and students,

I’m Dai Won Moon that brought the TKD to the Mexico 46 years ago. TKD has been my life and I worked to put the name of our(s) country at world level. I participated in the creation of the WTF and the Féderacion Mexicana de Taekwondo. The true essence of Taekwondo are the values that allowed to TKD a great diffusion and development in many countries. Due to this diffusion, it becomes an Olympic sport. But, ironically, emphasizing the sportive side it puts aside the true essence of TKD.

It is the moment to save the roots of TKD martial art. His virtues, his philosophy, his essence, to assure his survival in the future. Nowadays, I’m leading a commission to establish a Kukkiwon office in Mexico. To have (?) this office in Mexico allows us to re-take the roots of TKD, as well as other additional advantages. Kukkiwon goes further than an international certification. It is one institution that promote the teaching quality, due to excellence capacity programs (?). It allows to dignify and improve the performance of the TKD masters in Mexico.

Furthermore, it gives the opportunity to participate in the … festival …

…TKD belong to all TKD students.”

I don't master neither spanish, neither english, but I guess it can help.

Thanks for that translation. It makes more sense now.

 

[Metal]

Unfortunately I don't speak Spanish, but do you wanna know what's probably the real reason for him to open a regional Kukkiwon office?

It's about power and money.

We have the same thing happening in Germany right now where Park Soo Nam (current president of the German Taekwondo Union and former national coach) is opening the regional office for Germany and a lot of independent Kukkiwon masters are outraged and afraid to loose an important income of their business: the Kukkiwon grading. Ko Eui Min (former and maybe the most successful Korean national coach) wrote a letter to the Korean President and Minister of Culture, Sports and Tourism in order to stop Kukkiwon from establishing a new grading system.

So what is Kukkiwon planning?

In order to guarantee the quality of Kukkiwon blackbelts they want to establish regional offices who will run the Kukkiwon Dan promotion tests. For graduating people to Kukkiwon Black belts examiners will need to hold a special Kukkiwon Dan grading license. In an interview with Heinz Gruber (former president of the German Taekwondo Union and Kukkiwon 8th Dan) who was just in Korea together along other German high ranking masters for that Kukkiwon Dan grading seminar, I read the following:

While we have about 500 Dan examiners in Germany, Kukkiwon wants to limit that number to 10 to 15. The total number for Europe will probably be limited to 50!

So all the independent instructors who run their Dan gradings for their own school inhouse and make good money with that are afraid of loosing that extra income.

The system that Kukkiwon wants to establish worldwide would be similar to the Korean system where students are not tested in their school, but at regional Kukkiwon tests.

So Moon Dai Won, who probably is the highest ranking and longest active master in Mexico, wants to run the regional office in order to be still able to conduct Kukkiwon tests in the future. He doesn't state that he wants to make money with Dan gradings and instead says that he wants to bring Taekwondo back to being a martial art, keep the quality and so on.

Same here in Germany. The Korean masters who support Ko Eui Min state how important the 'teacher student relationship' is and that regional Kukkiwon tests would take that important element of "monitoring the way to the black belt" and would hurt Taekwondo as a leisure sport for everybody.

In my opinion it would be better if they would clearly say: "We run our schools as an independent business and need the money from Dan gradings".

 

[Manny]

Unfortunately I don't speak Spanish, but do you wanna know what's probably the real reason for him to open a regional Kukkiwon office?

It's about power and money.

We have the same thing happening in Germany right now where Park Soo Nam (current president of the German Taekwondo Union and former national coach) is opening the regional office for Germany and a lot of independent Kukkiwon masters are outraged and afraid to loose an important income of their business: the Kukkiwon grading. Ko Eui Min (former and maybe the most successful Korean national coach) wrote a letter to the Korean President and Minister of Culture, Sports and Tourism in order to stop Kukkiwon from establishing a new grading system.

So what is Kukkiwon planning?

In order to guarantee the quality of Kukkiwon blackbelts they want to establish regional offices who will run the Kukkiwon Dan promotion tests. For graduating people to Kukkiwon Black belts examiners will need to hold a special Kukkiwon Dan grading license. In an interview with Heinz Gruber (former president of the German Taekwondo Union and Kukkiwon 8th Dan) who was just in Korea together along other German high ranking masters for that Kukkiwon Dan grading seminar, I read the following:

While we have about 500 Dan examiners in Germany, Kukkiwon wants to limit that number to 10 to 15. The total number for Europe will probably be limited to 50!

So all the independent instructors who run their Dan gradings for their own school inhouse and make good money with that are afraid of loosing that extra income.

The system that Kukkiwon wants to establish worldwide would be similar to the Korean system where students are not tested in their school, but at regional Kukkiwon tests.

So Moon Dai Won, who probably is the highest ranking and longest active master in Mexico, wants to run the regional office in order to be still able to conduct Kukkiwon tests in the future. He doesn't state that he wants to make money with Dan gradings and instead says that he wants to bring Taekwondo back to being a martial art, keep the quality and so on.

Same here in Germany. The Korean masters who support Ko Eui Min state how important the 'teacher student relationship' is and that regional Kukkiwon tests would take that important element of "monitoring the way to the black belt" and would hurt Taekwondo as a leisure sport for everybody.

In my opinion it would be better if they would clearly say: "We run our schools as an independent business and need the money from Dan gradings".

I think you are right! Dai Won Moon co-owns more than 400 dojangs here in Mexico below the Moo Duk Kwan name/logo, he was the founder of TKD in Mexico and the founder of the Tae Kwond Do Mexican Federation, he is no longer a part of TKDMF and he wants to take control again of Mexican TKD but the other corner, this is using a Kukiwon office in mexico DF. Yeah Grand Master Dai Won Moon only want to do is bussiness with TKD and he hides this behind the TKD Clasic movement.

El Manny

 

[Archtkd]

Unfortunately I don't speak Spanish, but do you wanna know what's probably the real reason for him to open a regional Kukkiwon office?

It's about power and money.

We have the same thing happening in Germany right now where Park Soo Nam (current president of the German Taekwondo Union and former national coach) is opening the regional office for Germany and a lot of independent Kukkiwon masters are outraged and afraid to loose an important income of their business: the Kukkiwon grading. Ko Eui Min (former and maybe the most successful Korean national coach) wrote a letter to the Korean President and Minister of Culture, Sports and Tourism in order to stop Kukkiwon from establishing a new grading system....
".

Thanks for a very good, informative and well reasoned post.

 

[Gwai Lo Dan]

I like the idea of a national TKD testing authority...if it means no barriers and lower pricing.

So if the requirements for 1st dan are sparring, kicking, breaking and taegeuks 1-8, I should be able to get my BB if I have the ability, regardless of whether I am been at a TKD school for 1 year or 3 years, or even not at all.

Also, around here a BB test is generally $600. I paid $380 a few weeks ago and that was a deal in comparison. If the fee were more like $100 + KKW fee of $100 or so, then the central testing authority is a big step forward.

 

[Metal]

Also, around here a BB test is generally $600. I paid $380 a few weeks ago and that was a deal in comparison. If the fee were more like $100 + KKW fee of $100 or so, then the central testing authority is a big step forward.

Seriously???

I thought the prices of Master Ko inMunich would be high:

Gebühren:

1. Dan € 250,-
2. Dan € 300,-
3. Dan € 350,-
4. Dan € 400,-
5. Dan € 460,-
6. Dan € 520,-
7. Dan € 580,-

I paid 150€ for my 1st Dan and 180€ for my 2nd. And that included the national and the Kukkiwon Dan certificate. The only extra costs were a Dan seminar which was 15€.


I guess ridiculous prices like 600$ for a 1st Dan are also among the reasons why Kukkiwon wants to change their international grading system.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It's really a little pointless to compare prices from different hemispheres. Even if you adjust for exchange rates, the cost of doing business varies widely in even a relatively small geographic area. Opposite sides of the world? A valid comparison would require 50 pages and an economics degree...


Sent from an old fashioned 300 baud acoustic modem by whistling into the handset. Not TapaTalk. Really.

 

[Metal]

It's really a little pointless to compare prices from different hemispheres.

No, it's not. The Kukkiwon cut per certificate is gonna be the same and once the difference in price is more than 100% it gets to a point where it's ridiculous, no matter what the economic situation in a country is. Plus comparing independent schools in Germany can definitely be compared to commercial martial arts schools in the U.S.

Comparing the German club system with commercial schools in the U.S. would be a different thing.


Maybe one of the idependent instructors on here can shed some light on how much a Kukkiwon certificate actually is. Even if it's 100 US$, charging 600 US$ for a 1st Dan Kukkiwon is ridiculous, IMO.

I actually remember a girl from Germany who told me she wouldn't take her 4th Dan test since it would be too expensive since her 'Master' would charge close to 1000€ total. So Kukkiwon certificate/grading plus a couple of seminars for licenses that won't be worth anything outside of her club. So basically her coach issued coach and referee licenses for a few hundred Euros (which would be mandatory for his dan gradings) that are worth close to nothing. That's a point from where on I would clearly call it scam.

 

[Dirty Dog]

No, it's not. The Kukkiwon cut per certificate is gonna be the same and once the difference in price is more than 100% it gets to a point where it's ridiculous, no matter what the economic situation in a country is. Plus comparing independent schools in Germany can definitely be compared to commercial martial arts schools in the U.S.

Comparing the German club system with commercial schools in the U.S. would be a different thing.


Maybe one of the idependent instructors on here can shed some light on how much a Kukkiwon certificate actually is. Even if it's 100 US$, charging 600 US$ for a 1st Dan Kukkiwon is ridiculous, IMO.

I actually remember a girl from Germany who told me she wouldn't take her 4th Dan test since it would be too expensive since her 'Master' would charge close to 1000€ total. So Kukkiwon certificate/grading plus a couple of seminars for licenses that won't be worth anything outside of her club. So basically her coach issued coach and referee licenses for a few hundred Euros (which would be mandatory for his dan gradings) that are worth close to nothing. That's a point from where on I would clearly call it scam.

So you think the cost of rent, utilities, etc etc etc is the same in both places? Does the price include bringing in a couple Grandmasters (food, transportation, lodging...), or a nod from the regular instructor? A $20 belt, or a $200 Eosin Panther? A new $20 student uniform, or a custom Moo Sool Sa dobak?

Comparing prices is silly. Comparing what you get makes more sense.

 

[Metal]

Well, we're talking Kukkiwon gradings of Independent Kukkiwon Instructors so what you get is:

- a sheet of paper
- a plastic card
- listing in a Korean database

;-)