"The Empty Cup"...Has anyone read this new book?

[geezer]

Jeff Webb, a friend under whom I've been training for a good many years just recently finished a book titled The Empty Cup on "the proper attitude" for a student coming to study traditional martial arts. It's a short, nicely presented meditation on what the author believes is the correct attitude for learning martial arts, and a pretty quick read and available on Amazon for about 20 bucks or so.

I would be interested is anyone else's opinion on this little volume, as I found it thought provoking, sometimes inspiring, and frankly sometimes ...annoying? But then I've never had "the proper attitude" about much of anything! And, being something of a "free thinker" as well as more than a bit "undisciplined", you might predict such a response from me.

Still, I'd recommend the book, and really like to get some opinions from others. If anyone has or can get a copy, please let me know what you think!

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

I have not read it yet. But empty cup means 2 things:

1. You have open mind.
2. You don't have faith.

You can argue from both sides and there won't be right and wrong.

When wind blow, the grass grow in the wall will swing according to the wind direction. That's how a politician behaves.

The empty cup means that I agree with you today but I reserve my right not to if I can find any reason later on.

 

[geezer]

BTW here's the book:

 

[geezer]

I have not read it yet. But empty cup means 2 things:

1. You have open mind.
2. You don't have faith.

You can argue from both sides and there won't be right and wrong.

The phrase "empty cup" as used in this book is with the first meaning above: to have an open mind.

Ironically, other sections of the book essentially exhort the would-be martial art student to have faith in their instructor and determination to stick with their training. I'm not sure how you square the two. It's hard to have an open mind and to doggedly persevere following your instructor's advice.

It's almost like you have to enter training with an open mind and then close it to focus just on what you are told? Maybe I've got it wrong, but I have found this to be a failing of some very "traditional" systems that are overly authoritarian and sometimes almost cult-like in their thinking.

--Not that this is the sole point of this book. It examines many other aspects of traditional training. The "empty-cup" adage is just one of a number of themes examined.

 

[Buka]

I'll eventually get it. Right now my wife has temporarily banned me from Amazon anything. It's for my own good.

My name is Buka and I'm an an Amazohlic.

 

[geezer]

I'll eventually get it. Right now my wife has temporarily banned me from Amazon anything. It's for my own good. My name is Buka and I'm an an Amazohlic.

Funny. My boss ...er wife is the Amazoholic in our household. The occasional thing I get comes sandwiched in with all the stuff she orders.

 

[skribs]

The phrase "empty cup" as used in this book is with the first meaning above: to have an open mind.

Ironically, other sections of the book essentially exhort the would-be martial art student to have faith in their instructor and determination to stick with their training. I'm not sure how you square the two. It's hard to have an open mind and to doggedly persevere following your instructor's advice.

It's almost like you have to enter training with an open mind and then close it to focus just on what you are told? Maybe I've got it wrong, but I have found this to be a failing of some very "traditional" systems that are overly authoritarian and sometimes almost cult-like in their thinking.

--Not that this is the sole point of this book. It examines many other aspects of traditional training. The "empty-cup" adage is just one of a number of themes examined.

First off, I haven't read the book.

I think the two actually do go hand-in-hand. Having faith in the process is part of keeping an open mind. Let me use my experience teaching as an example. It's something I talk about a lot on here - my Master and I have different teaching philosophies, and I follow his philosophy because he's the master. It took a few years for me to see the benefits of his style of teaching over mine.

When I started, I had to have an open mind to trust that maybe my method isn't the only method that will work. Similarly, for a student, you have to have an open mind to trust that there will be some things in your training you might not see the point of right away (forms are a popular item here), but that exist for a reason and you will be better for training them.

Over the first year, I had to continue to trust my master. Because I didn't immediately see the results I wanted to see in the students, obviously his method isn't working and I would need to use my method, right? Wrong. I still needed to keep my mind open. I still needed to trust in his method, instead of my own.

Fast forward to now, four years into teaching at his school. I've seen his method work. Because I kept an open mind at the beginning, and continued to keep an open mind when I didn't have immediate proof that my fears were justified, I've seen his methods work. I've seen some students that his methods are definitely better for. And I've seen some students that my style would be better for.

I've come to a point now where his style is what I'm used to, and now I feel comfortable starting to question it. I've seen what his methods do and don't do. Because I've seen the process through, I feel now that having an open mind is looking at things that maybe could be done different. If not now at his school, maybe later down the road when I have a school to teach. (Although ideally some of these would happen now, so I can learn them before I get to that point).

So...
Open mind at the start of your training is to trust the instructors even if you're not sure on the methods.
Open mind at the intermediate level is to continue to trust the instructors even if you don't see the results yet.
Open mind at the advanced level is to question what you've come to know and how you can continue to improve.

 

[Buka]

I just checked my credit card. Between Amazon, the new book store that recently opened near work and the news stand inside the airport, so far this year I've purchased 106 books. It's like a disease.

 

[Flying Crane]

I just checked my credit card. Between Amazon, the new book store that recently opened near work and the news stand inside the airport, so far this year I've purchased 106 books. It's like a disease.

Books are highly justifiable. I’ve been ordering stacks of college text books that are a couple editions out of date because they can be as cheap as under ten bucks if you buy used and depending on how old the edition is. (new-edition college texts can cost over a couple hundred bucks). Still a lot of good info there, I’ve been reading them cover-to-cover, did astronomy, marine biology, I’m in the middle of geology, and I’ve got about twenty more in my stack. It’s my cheap, second college education.

 

[Headhunter]

Don't know about the book but to me the phrase the empty cup means I haven't put my groin guard on yet

 

[skribs]

Don't know about the book but to me the phrase the empty cup means I haven't put my groin guard on yet

In Taekwondo, we're basically armored head to foot when we spar. Headgear, mouthguard, chestguard, forearms and gloves, shins and shoes, and a groin cup. I add knee pads because I tend to knock knees with people.

The other day I was helping out and just put on my chestguard to give them a target. During the first break I put on my groin cup. Because...yeah.

 

[Hanzou]

I've always viewed "emptying the cup" as moving from one martial art to another an accepting that you're a beginner all over again and not carrying any ego.

Anyways, I dont know about doggedly obeying your teacher just because. I think in more traditional schools I can view this as a benefit and also a huge problem depending on who your teacher is.

 

[skribs]

Anyways, I dont know about doggedly obeying your teacher just because. I think in more traditional schools I can view this as a benefit and also a huge problem depending on who your teacher is.

That's a risk, yes. And maybe another reason that the "traditional" vs. "practical" styles (I hope people know what I mean by that and don't throw a fit), that the practical style has an edge.

 

[Hanzou]

That's a risk, yes. And maybe another reason that the "traditional" vs. "practical" styles (I hope people know what I mean by that and don't throw a fit), that the practical style has an edge.

I would agree. One of the things I liked about Bjj was the lack of bowing and kneeling, and the fact that I called my teachers by their first names. It really made the entire atmosphere seem more like we’re a bunch of friends hanging out instead of a stuffy and rigid dojo with a ton of rules. That atmosphere made it a lot easier to “empty the cup”.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

The empty cup concept remind one of my training experience. My primary long fist system has roundhouse kick. But the training detail is not very clear. When I met my

- TKD friend, I found his roundhouse kick training method had more detail. I switched my roundhouse kick to 100% TKD roundhouse kick.
- MT friend, I found his roundhouse kick training method was even better. I switched my roundhouse kick to 100% MT roundhouse kick.

What I like about the MT roundhouse kick training methods are:

- Spin the body after the kick.
- Let the kick to come 45 degree downward.

Both are missing from the long fist and TKD training. I assume this meet the "empty cup" attitude.

On the other extreme, I'm very stubborn about my SC "single leg".

- The wrestling single leg requires to drop one knee on the ground and use both hands to get opponent's leg.
- The SC single leg doesn't require the knee dropping. It requires only to use one hand to obtain the leg while using another hand to push on opponent's shoulder.

I like the SC single leg better for the following reasons:

- No knee dropping mean that I still have good mobility. Also to drop knee on the concrete is not good.
- The shoulder pushing hand can protect my head from punching.