The Complete Package

[7starmantis]

In the most recent issue of Inside Kung Fu (released yesterday) there is a nice 5 page article called, "Seven Star Mantis, The Complete Package". Its a good piece and was written by Sifu Jeff Hughes a good friend and one of the Sifus in the US Kung Fu Exchange I train under. It talks about the system and some of its principles which are often not understood by many mantis practitioners anymore. It has severla pictures of Sifu Hughes as well as my sigung Raymond Fogg. Its a very well writtne article and even talks a bit about the UKFE and mentions my sifu when talking about the structure as he is the Vice President.

Anyone read the article? Its pretty good at explaining some of the deeper mantis principles. Its an interesting read and could make for some good discussion here.

7sm

 

[WLMantisKid]

I might have to stop by my local Barnes and Noble to pick that up then, thanks for the info!

 

[r6racer]

Yah I went into barnes and noble and picked it up yesterday. I thought it was a really good article, but i guess im slightly biased cause I just started studying 7 Star Praying Mantis. :ultracool

 

[7starmantis]

Thats cool, who are you studying under?

7sm

 

[r6racer]

Im studying at the NTKFE. Sifu Curtis Medley teaches my class. I have had 2 classes so far and I love it, Im in the gray level class which is some basics and lots of conditioning, and Im way outta shape, Im short of breath after like the first 10min LOL.

 

[RHD]

In the most recent issue of Inside Kung Fu (released yesterday) there is a nice 5 page article called, "Seven Star Mantis, The Complete Package". Its a good piece and was written by Sifu Jeff Hughes a good friend and one of the Sifus in the US Kung Fu Exchange I train under. It talks about the system and some of its principles which are often not understood by many mantis practitioners anymore. It has severla pictures of Sifu Hughes as well as my sigung Raymond Fogg. Its a very well writtne article and even talks a bit about the UKFE and mentions my sifu when talking about the structure as he is the Vice President.

Anyone read the article? Its pretty good at explaining some of the deeper mantis principles. Its an interesting read and could make for some good discussion here.

7sm

Yeah it was a good article. Informative, and had some interesting historical background.

Mike

 

[7starmantis]

Im studying at the NTKFE. Sifu Curtis Medley teaches my class. I have had 2 classes so far and I love it, Im in the gray level class which is some basics and lots of conditioning, and Im way outta shape, Im short of breath after like the first 10min LOL.

Thats awesome, welcome to the exchange! I train in Tyler under Sifu Jones. Curtis is a good teacher. Will you be attending Sigung Fogg's Workshop this year? If so I'll actually get to meet you there.

7sm

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

Yeah i saw the article

I was wondering how long it would be before you spoke of it here :ultracool lol

Good article though.

jeff

 

[r6racer]

Yah I will be up at the workshop, looks like I joined just in time to make it.

 

[7starmantis]

I needed to type out this article in its entirety, so I thought I would post it here, for those who haven't seen it to read and comment on.

Seven Star Mantis: The Complete Package - by Sifu Jeff Hughes

The legendary Wong Long, creator of the famous northern shaolin seven star praying mantis system of kung fu, developed his system while spending his days at the Shaolin Temple.
Taking the best techniques from 17 other styles of the time, Wong created one of the most effective fighting systems ever developed in China. Some of these techniques include the long fist of tai cho, short fist of Un Yian, monkey style of Sun Tan and the throwing strokes of Wai Tek. Combined with the movements used by the praying mantis insect, these techniques gave birth to the seven-star mantis system.
The northern mantis system remained in the Shaolin Temple for several generations until a wandering Taoist monk names abbot Sheng Hsiao Tao Jen came to visit the sacred grounds. After mastering the mantis style, Tai Jen left the temple and became the first person to disseminate this style throughout China.

"Li the Lighting Fist"
Tao Jen handed over the system to Li San Chen, who established a security service called the "Pui Kuk." Li was revered in Northern China and was known to thieves as "Li the Lightening Fist." His skills were so great he was never defeated. When Li was much older, while searching for a worthy student, he met Wang Yung Sheng, a national boxing champion. Before he taught Yung Sheng, Li challenged the young champion to a friendly match. Yung Sheng couldn't even touch the much older master; Li simply seemed to vanish every time Yung attacked. Once Li touched Yung Sheng, Li was immovable. Yung Sheng eventually became the third successor of the mantis system.
Wang passed his teaching on to Fan Yuk Tang, who weighed over 300 pounds and was known for his iron palm skills. He achieved widespread fame in China by accepting an open challenge from a Russian fighter in the early 1870's. Traveling to Siberia, Fan defeated the Russian champion along with several other challengers. Fan's disciple, Lo Kwan Yuk, earned the title of fifth successor of the system.
In 1919, after leaning of Lo's reputation as a fighter, the committee of the Shanghai Chin Wu Athletic Association, hoping to fill the position of chief instructor, sent a representative to Shantung to invite Lo to Shanghai. Lo accepted the position and trained many successful students. His fighting techniques proved themselves again when one of his top students, Ma Ching Hsin, took first place at a national Chinese boxing competition.
The next successor, Chao Chi Man, was already an accomplished martial artist when he met Lo. The late grandmaster Chao Chi Man joined the Hong Kong Chin Wu Association in 1924, where he studied the shaolin tan tui style for six years. He also trained in eagle claw and tai chi chuan. When Lo was honored as one of the "Four Super-Lords" of the Chin Wu Association, Chao Chi Man began to follow him. In 1930, Chao Chi Man committed his studies to seven star mantis kung fu.

Opening the "Closed Door"
Chao Chi Man disseminated the seven star system to his nephew, Chiu Leun, who already had a background in mantis style through his apprenticeship at a temple with the "Big Monk" and the "Little Monk." Chiu Leun spread the art to America when he relocated to New York's Chinatown. It was here that sifu Raymond Fogg began his studies under the grandmaster. Fogg, one of the few "closed-door" disciples, dispersed the art first in Washington, D.C., and later in Texas.
As taught by grandmaster Chiu Leun and master Fogg, the seven star system is a complete fighting style with many empty hand, weapons, and two-person sets. Iron palm and iron arm training constitute just part of the advanced training instruction, along with the lo han qigong set.
The art of chi sau or "sticky hands" is widely known in wing chun and in the push hands on tai chi chuan. Mantis chi sau is similar, but has specific guiding techniques and principles. Chi sau allows a practitioner to elevate his techniques through the skill if touch, which allows one to "measure" and "listen" to his partner or adversaries intentions.
When learning chi sau, you must learn to follow the other's movement without leading. The is done with great patience and complete trust in your sifu's guidance. Much time should be taken to slow one's movements, calm the spirit, and fully "hear" one's opponent. This calmness eventually can be carried into a full-speed, full-power combat. Other important principles to remember in chi sau include saying relaxed yet "full" and constantly moving with no wasted movements. Use weight to follow up strikes and always keep one's body sensitive. The slightest touch can lead to the hand slipping away.

The Key to Mantis
Achieving high-level mantis chi sau skills can only be accomplished by placing emphasis on the training of the system's drills and techniques, and working long hours on forms, which include chin na jointlocking, throws, and groundfighting. Chi sau helps a practitioner successfully apply the technique's forms, which ultimately hold the key to the knowledge handed down form master to student. Tong Long practitioners are famous for blocking a punch and then following the arm into a "hook," where they can pluck or redirect their opponent before striking. When using chin na jointlocks, mantis stylists break and/or quickly move on to a strike or throw. Using chi sau skill, one can find his competitor's center and throw him off balance. Chi sau, along with rolls, can be used to escape chin na. To make all strikes count, aim at sensitive areas and pressure points.
It is important to remember the "rules governing wushu:" when you get hurt, dont let your opponent know; use deception to vary your techniques. Kung fu us based on circles, so try to make your strikes go in circles or in an arc. When in combat, use your spirit and facial expressions. Mantis hops and other mantis footwork, such as chien (dodging) and sim bo, are used in a controlling manner to gain momentum. Ja bo, which is similar to bagua's walking circle, teng (jumping) and chi jert "sticky feet" are important parts of mantis footwork.
In combat, "body handling" or controlling the opponent's elbow must not only be learned, but also mastered. When grabbed, yield and twist, using circular motions in the direction of the force. Then follow then attack. Collapsing techniques can be both offensive and defensive in nature.

Effective in Combat
Chi sau heightens a martial artist's sense of awareness and increases contact reflexes. One purpose is to sense for centerline mistakes. Along with the fighting drills, these principles allow a practitioner to incorporate a series of techniques into his mantis repertoire. Other chi sau drills include choi som sau, noi gwa sau, and jim lim sau. These drills, combined with strict adherence to the 12 principles of attack and defense and eight hard and 12 soft principles, allow a student to understand why the mantis system is so effective in combat.
Fogg was introduced to chi sau in Washington, D.C., where he studied the mantis system under sihing Randy Burly. He later trained mantis fighting under Chiu Leung and in mantis boxing under sifu Henry Chung. He said chi sai training helped him develop sensitivity.
"In kung-fu, one must learn to listen with their arms, hands, and body," Fogg explained. "In a fight, most of the damage will be done in close quarters. That is, the range of touching, which allows one to use all of the sensitivity developed in the chi sau or jeem leem."
Scratching the surface of seven star praying mantis is easy, Fogg added, What separates the beginner from the advanced student is his understanding and mastery of the eight hard principles and 12 soft principles.
"Well, it becomes obvious that the 12 are more important to obtain. Furthermore, becoming one with the 12 soft principles is a much harder task to accomplish than becoming one with the hard principles," Fogg noted. "Many practitioners lack the patience required to understand the importance of the soft and without understanding it becomes even harder to achieve."
Still, a mastery of chi sau techniques adds to the mantis practitioner's arsenal of weapons, Fogg insisted.
"Learning and achieving aspects of chi sau (jeem leem), I became more confident in my skills and found that my growth could be infinite."
Published in the October release of Inside Kung Fu Magazine.

7sm

 

[Blooming Lotus]

Awesome article 7* !!! Probably the best piece I've read in months.

Soo many discussions that could come out of it, so cheers! I appreciate that.
Mantis is looking better everyday and not that I want to jack your thread but I am albeit decided on spending some time on it, though looks like it could clash with ninjutsu ( also on the agenda). What do you think?? Maybe that's another thread.

Moving on though, I find it extremely interesting to learn the different forms and styles mantis has come in contact with ( and how that did or didn't effect its developement ) and what was it exactly you were saying about non -shaolin roots ???

lol.....

Also have an interest in monkey style and looked soo hard for tam tui while in china but no joy and shaolin priority. Do you know how much of these have actually been adopted by mantis??

Once again, extremely cool stuff . cheers!

Blooming Lotus

 

[7starmantis]

Soo many discussions that could come out of it, so cheers! I appreciate that.
Mantis is looking better everyday and not that I want to jack your thread but I am albeit decided on spending some time on it, though looks like it could clash with ninjutsu ( also on the agenda). What do you think?? Maybe that's another thread.

Yeah, I think alot of CMA can clash with JMA if only in concept and intent. I will say this, its not something you could expect to "try" for 6 months and expect to have gained a good level of skill in.

Moving on though, I find it extremely interesting to learn the different forms and styles mantis has come in contact with ( and how that did or didn't effect its developement ) and what was it exactly you were saying about non -shaolin roots ???

lol.....

Um, I didn't say anything about non-shaolin roots. Maybe someone else. In fact it was developed to fight against shaolin, so there would deffinitely be some similarities on a basic level.

Also have an interest in monkey style and looked soo hard for tam tui while in china but no joy and shaolin priority. Do you know how much of these have actually been adopted by mantis??

How much of what? Pretty much it was only footwork and such that was really developed from the monkey. There aren't really monkey forms or anything like that in mantis.

7sm

 

[Black Tiger Fist]

The two go together so well.

I myself at one time really wanted to learn 7* because of the mixture of the two.

but alas i found my true calling with Black Tiger.artyon:


jeff

 

[Blooming Lotus]

Seven Star Mantis: The Complete Package - by Sifu Jeff Hughes

The legendary Wong Long, creator of the famous northern shaolin seven star praying mantis system of kung fu, developed his system while spending his days at the Shaolin Temple.


So he was staying there while planning there demise..... right.because the monks were obviously a huge antogonistic threat

btw : chin na is from shaolin and so is qigong ( Ie : iron skill)

"Li the Lighting Fist"
The late grandmaster Chao Chi Man joined the Hong Kong Chin Wu Association in 1924, where he studied the shaolin tan tui style for six years.

and this is interesting ...no ??

Considering mantis chi sao version and that chi sao is WC thing........... What else did mantis find down there???

7sm

Btw : I never said I thought I'd have a black belt in 6 mths, but If I want to learn I will until I know.

BL

 

[Blooming Lotus]

How much of what? Pretty much it was only footwork and such that was really developed from the monkey. There aren't really monkey forms or anything like that in mantis.

7sm

Where did i read that tan tui and monkey style were mantis components????.....god knows what rearch tangents I go on while half asleep ( blush)....... beg to differ though and now I just have to find the freakin link again..........

the article does say that mantis was comprised of melding techs from various existing systems + preying mantis insect combat techs though so for now at min it's a "slight" corroboration anyway.

BL

 

[7starmantis]

So he was staying there while planning there demise..... right.because the monks were obviously a huge antogonistic threat

I guess you dont accept this part of mantis history, thats ok. The answer is actually yes, but not in the way your assuming. His planning was to beat them in hand to hand combat (kung fu) not kill them. Its possible to want to beat someone and still have them as a friend. He developed mantis to allow him to best his monk brothers, so obviously he wasn't trying to kill them all since he stayed there.

btw : chin na is from shaolin and so is qigong ( Ie : iron skill)

Ok, I think that is pretty widely accepted. I dont understand the point. I agree with you there, why would that be a surprise to you? You keep holding on to some belief that I'm saying mantis has no connection to shaolin, I never said that.

and this is interesting ...no ??

Considering mantis chi sao version and that chi sao is WC thing........... What else did mantis find down there???

Chi Sao is a WC thing by its name. Mantis "chi sao" is more appropriately called jeem leem as the articles talks about later on. Your also taking one person and accepting what he did as the basis of the whole system. Its not interesting that he studied tan tui, lots of people study other systems. My sigung was a master instructor in wah lum at one time, that doesn't change 7* or its principles.

the article does say that mantis was comprised of melding techs from various existing systems + preying mantis insect combat techs though so for now at min it's a "slight" corroboration anyway.

Thats true.

7sm

 

[Blooming Lotus]

What I'm saying 7* is that if your system is rooted in shaolin, and you don't have much information about that system, with your philisophical tangents and theories yourself, how do you propose to understand the off-shoot?? Meiguanxi. I Promised you mods I wouldn't argue ( translation : discuss) , so consider that comment retorical.



cheers anyway 7star

Blooming Lotus

 

[7starmantis]

What I'm saying 7* is that if your system is rooted in shaolin, and you don't have much information about that system, with your philisophical tangents and theories yourself, how do you propose to understand the off-shoot?? Meiguanxi. I Promised you mods I wouldn't argue ( translation : discuss) , so consider that comment retorical.

First, as a mod, I want discussion in here more than anything. Rude, argumentative, or insulting behavior does not equal discussion, so feel free to discuss as much as you like. Its when things cross the line that I will have to act.

Second, it makes no matter to me if you accept 7* having roots in shaolin, because simply put, I'm not too impressed with what I've seen under the name shaolin. Nowadays anyone and everyone claim shaolin, its a catchphrase now. Mantis in general was created at or around shaolin temple and intended to fight against shaolin, thats the basis. I'm not quite sure what you are referring to as my philisophical tangents, but I dont have any need or desire to learn alot about "shaolin". Mantis is not an off-shoot of shaolin, so it really matters little to me. What I do and what I see other do who claim they are training in "shaolin" are very different, and to be honest, I would rather keep it that way.

7sm

 

[Blooming Lotus]

You're right .the name shaolin is being mcdojoed and exploited and use under false pretenses all over the place, and I guess that's why they've or are in the process of , seeking copyright protection on the name. I really can't comment too much though not having studied mantis myself so I'm going to go study / train some more and get back to you

btw 7, if an argument is a debate is a discussion of different perspectives.......... then why shouldn't that be encouraged???? Doesn't matter.I don't have to participate I guess.

 

[Fumanchu]

Mantis originated around the shandong region as opposed to the shaolin temple. True that it is related to long fist - but this is from the Islamic community as opposed to buddist.

You can probably say that mantis and tai chi originated about the same time ans there is significant degree of cross pollination between the two. There is also close ties to less ancient martial arts style such as baji, hsing i and tongei.