The C Guard

[FeralKenpo]

Hello, this is my first post.
I was wondering if anyone knows the proper application of the C guard found in kenpo kata.

Thank you

 

[MJS]

Hello, this is my first post.
I was wondering if anyone knows the proper application of the C guard found in kenpo kata.

Thank you

Welcome to Martial Talk!

As to your question...could you please explain what kata you're talking about as well as exactly what the C guard is?

Thanks,

Mike

 

[DavidCC]

That thing ahd me scratching my head for a while.

The C guard is when you ahve one hand inan over-head guard, the other hand low, elbow at the waist, hand pointing forward. Pinan 4 and kata 3 both use it.

The best applications I have seen for that came from a member here, "upnorthkyosa" (Jim). He does TSD, they also practice the pinan set, and he has some great applications for the C guard.

One simple one is that the high hand is holding the wrist of the attacker, the lower hand strikes to any one of many vulnerable points in the armpit or side of the body.

 

[Touch Of Death]

That thing ahd me scratching my head for a while.

The C guard is when you ahve one hand inan over-head guard, the other hand low, elbow at the waist, hand pointing forward. Pinan 4 and kata 3 both use it.

The best applications I have seen for that came from a member here, "upnorthkyosa" (Jim). He does TSD, they also practice the pinan set, and he has some great applications for the C guard.

One simple one is that the high hand is holding the wrist of the attacker, the lower hand strikes to any one of many vulnerable points in the armpit or side of the body.

I broke a guy's arm that used this when sparring with me. If you plan to use it, watch for the pull drag knife edge kicks to the elbow.
Sean

 

[Empty Hands]

I broke a guy's arm that used this when sparring with me. If you plan to use it, watch for the pull drag knife edge kicks to the elbow.

You used a hard knife-edge kick to a joint when sparring?

Remind me not to spar with you.

 

[Kembudo-Kai Kempoka]

You used a hard knife-edge kick to a joint when sparring?

Remind me not to spar with you.

I actually see nothing wrong with this. I use solid strikes to test an opponents nettle all the time; also, baits reactions out of them I can use against them later. I figger, guy shoulda used a different defense. He will now.

D.

 

[Empty Hands]

I use solid strikes to test an opponents nettle all the time; also, baits reactions out of them I can use against them later.

Solid strikes? Sure. Against an elbow? Any joint? That is grossly irresponsible. No one can avoid all strikes all the time, no matter how good. Thus, this practice is an invitation to an inevitable major injury.

I figger, guy shoulda used a different defense. He will now.

Hey, why not try to blind him with an eye strike? That'll teach him to cover up!

 

[DavidCC]

everyone has a different "risk-reward" calculation...

but anyway, C-guard... somebody talk about that. I've got 2 forms that use it and 1 good application and even that isn't that good.

 

[Mark L]

Hello, this is my first post.
I was wondering if anyone knows the proper application of the C guard found in kenpo kata.

Thank you

It's not really a guard. Look at it in the context of the motion, it's typically seen executed in circular motion. Some applications include release for wrist/lapel/shoulder grabs. There's some lock possibilities there, too. The initial downward sweeping of the hands can be the deflection of an incoming low attack and the follow through are simultaneous strikes (some interesting combinations of pressure point targets about the head and neck). I could be wrong, but I don't think anything in these forms is just a guard.

 

[Mark L]

Solid strikes? Sure. Against an elbow? Any joint? That is grossly irresponsible. No one can avoid all strikes all the time, no matter how good. Thus, this practice is an invitation to an inevitable major injury.



Hey, why not try to blind him with an eye strike? That'll teach him to cover up!

You fight the way you train. Choose your partners wisely, and the danger is minimal (it'll never be zero). It's kempo, not dancing.

 

[Matt]

It's not really a guard. Look at it in the context of the motion, it's typically seen executed in circular motion. Some applications include release for wrist/lapel/shoulder grabs. There's some lock possibilities there, too. The initial downward sweeping of the hands can be the deflection of an incoming low attack and the follow through are simultaneous strikes (some interesting combinations of pressure point targets about the head and neck). I could be wrong, but I don't think anything in these forms is just a guard.

Hallelujah! I always translated 'it's a guard' as 'I don't know' and it worked well for me.

Matt

 

[Mark L]

Hallelujah! I always translated 'it's a guard' as 'I don't know' and it worked well for me.

Matt

Check.

 

[FeralKenpo]

thanks for all of your reply's so far
I have considered most of the things mentioned here already but, I dont know any specific applications that definately work and when/how I would use it.
I would also like to discuss how this 'movement' is beings used specifically in 4 pinan and 3 kata.
great posts guys, i hope to see more
Thanks

 

[FeralKenpo]

I apologize for the double post but i could not figure out how to edit my previous one.

anyway, I watched several videos on youtube of pinan yondan to see what their application was(its mostly used as a block and then strike it seems).

In the kenpo forms as previously stated this 'movement' or guard or whatever we are calling it, is done in a circular movement as apposed to a very straight linear one. So I would assume its application may be different.

Anyway I'd like to know specifically how you(everyone) interpret this movement in 1 kata, 3 kata, 4 pinan, and anywhere else

Thanks!

 

[marlon]

I have been taught a good throw with this move. if you are in close and pivot to the other direction while using this positiion one arm on top of the shoulder or arm of the opponent and the other under the arm...also if you consider the cup and saucer as a grab of a kick then step out with this move it lifts the leg and protects the head and can send someone flying.

marlon

 

[FeralKenpo]

thats very interesting marlon.
I've also wondered alot about why we use the cup and saucer in our forms.

 

[Touch Of Death]

You used a hard knife-edge kick to a joint when sparring?

Remind me not to spar with you.

It was twenty years ago and I have had goodness and niceness training since then. Beside that, its a stupid defense, given you can get your arm broken. LOL
Sean

 

[FeralKenpo]

I asked my instructor today what the application of this movement or guard is, and he just told me it was a guard or ready position. I respect his judgment a lot but like Matt has stated(I believe it was on his website www.kempoinfo.com) that the creators of kenpo were fighters and wouldn't add something as useless 'as a guard'.

Why would we enter into that guard in a circular motion?
The only answer I got was that it was for the sake of the form.

I don't like that answer.

Discuss!!

 

[Empty Hands]

...the creators of kenpo were fighters and wouldn't add something as useless 'as a guard'.

Guards are useless for fighting? Someone better let all the, uh, fighters, know.

 

[RevIV]

I asked my instructor today what the application of this movement or guard is, and he just told me it was a guard or ready position. I respect his judgment a lot but like Matt has stated(I believe it was on his website www.kempoinfo.com) that the creators of kenpo were fighters and wouldn't add something as useless 'as a guard'.

Why would we enter into that guard in a circular motion?
The only answer I got was that it was for the sake of the form.

I don't like that answer.

Discuss!!

i would not say gaurds are useless, maybe this one, but not all. 4 pinan, a friend of mine showed the first move as a high block as the lead hand bent the attackers arm (from the inside-cubital stroke)and in the transition brought the attacker down in front as an arm bar. (side note- cubital= crease opposite elbow) (2nd side note- typing one handed and holding a kid in the other slows things down)