The Bible, Faith & Martial Arts

Xue Sheng

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Calling Christianity myths fables, magic and witchcraft leading to death and destruction lol OK

No it isn't, but it is likely not 100% true either. And I did not see anywhere in crushing post were he wrote "magic and witchcraft leading to death and destruction"...you just added that bit

the fine details could have changed but the general story is true. If thats your debate then nothing pre photograhic evidence should be believed due to changes in translation

It is not fine detail and that can be proven by what the church removed, entire books. It is also likely that they edited what was left. and photographic evidence is not necessary, good historical and archeological research is all you need and from what we "know" the book has bee subjected to intense editing which very likely changed the story drastically.
 

crushing

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Calling Christianity myths fables, magic and witchcraft leading to death and destruction lol OK

Do you really find these statements vicious? Read the Bible and study history. Not just history, look at the present. Christians are STILL burning witches.
 

ballen0351

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They weren't contemporaries, were they? Hundreds of years separated some of the authors from the time they were 'witnessing.' Myths and fables are subject to evolution as they are passed down through the years. Each "eyewitness" putting their own flourish on the story. Not only that, there were translation errors as the stories moved from one language to the next as well as copy errors when publishing new books.

I'll bet the first to make up such fantastic stories of magic and witchcraft never considered that down the road that they would be taken seriously and lead to so much death and destruction.

XUE Might want to read again
 

ballen0351

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Do you really find these statements vicious? Read the Bible and study history. Not just history, look at the present. Christians are STILL burning witches.

No people are Burning witches. Thats not Christianity just as much as Terrorist kill people not Muslims
 

ballen0351

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Yes we do know Cesar was real based on historical evidence and the fact we know the authors of what was written and we have corroborating evidence of the fact that Ceaser existed in addition to archeological evidence. However this point has little to do with what you are saying or trying to prove.
And the same has been proven for Jesus
I do not doubt Jesus or his apostles lived nor have I ever said I did. What I am saying is that none of us have any idea who wrote the stories of the bible and those stories have been translated, likely with errors, and edited (changed - by the church) over the years. Basically the eyewitness accounts may or may not have been written by the eyewitnesses and even if they were they have been changed over the centuries
And we have no reason to doubt they folks that claim to have written them no more then we dont doubt the peple that wrote about Cesar. You choose to believe what you want to. Its all faith. You have faith that the books written about cesar was true yet you doubt the ones written about Jesus. It is what it is I have no desire to change your mind on the topic but it is what it is.
 

Xue Sheng

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XUE Might want to read again

Sorry, my mistake, I missed that...but in truth, Christianity was used to justify the Crusades and the Inquisition just to name two and there are others and one of those more recent and equally as heinous, although Christianity was a small part of that one........what about all the rest of what I wrote on correctness, editing, archeology and verifiable history
 

crushing

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No people are Burning witches. Thats not Christianity just as much as Terrorist kill people not Muslims

In Exodus 22:18 the Bible commands the faithful specifically, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Like Christians, Muslims also use their holy texts to justify some awful deeds. I think you make an apt comparison between Christian and Muslim terrorism.
 

ballen0351

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In Exodus 22:18 the Bible commands the faithful specifically, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Like Christians, Muslims also use their holy texts to justify some awful deeds. I think you make an apt comparison between Christian and Muslim terrorism.

Again someone that kills another can use whatever excuse he wants it doent make it so.
 

ballen0351

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what about all the rest of what I wrote on correctness, editing, archeology and verifiable history

I answered it. the same evidence you believe proves Cesar exists for Jesus his life death and resurection
 
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Calling Christianity myths fables, magic and witchcraft leading to death and destruction lol OK

Isn't that exactly what you do to non-Christian religions? You absolutely deny their validity (which means they're myths and fables) and attribute lots of nastiness to them. It's certainly true that religions (including Christianity) have been used to justify an awful lot of nastiness, and it's more than a little silly to pretend otherwise.

L Ron Hubbard (no relation to our own Bob, I assume...) claimed to have been an eyewitness to a lot of stuff I consider nonsense. Yet, his claims are as valid (though more recent) than those you claim as proof of your religious beliefs.

You're free to believe anything you like, but claiming objective proof is simply foolish.
 

Xue Sheng

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And the same has been proven for Jesus

Yes it can, but you are changing the focus of the discussion to come out as being right. But I am not arguing the existence of Jesus so this point it moot, I am arguing the validity of the book written about him. And you are the one that threw Ceaser into this in order to say there was some question to his existence...and there isn't, to much historical proof of that. Please stay on topic and focus of what is being discussed

And we have no reason to doubt they folks that claim to have written them no more then we dont doubt the peple that wrote about Cesar. You choose to believe what you want to. Its all faith. You have faith that the books written about cesar was true yet you doubt the ones written about Jesus. It is what it is I have no desire to change your mind on the topic but it is what it is.

Wrong, we do not know if those claiming to have written them actually ever made that claim themselves since we do not know if they actually wrote them. You are confusing faith with historic fact and they are not the same. Caesar existed, historic fact, Jesus existed, historic fact. But who wrote the stories about Jesus is not historic fact. We don't know who wrote the books and they have been edited (with extreme prejudice by the church) so if you show up in court with a story that you cannot verify the author beyond hearsay and there is evidence that that story has been extremely edited.....how much evidence is it going to be in court....little or none.

Faith is a good thing but truth is truth, we do not know who actually wrote the books of the bible.
 

Xue Sheng

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I answered it. the same evidence you believe proves Cesar exists for Jesus his life death and resurection

Please stop changing the focus of your original statement to come off as being right.

Last time. I am not nor have I ever said Jesus did not exist and I never mentioned the resurrection, I am saying the book you are claiming to be written by eye witnesses we do not know if it was or was not written by eyewitnesses. You brought Caesar into this in order to make an argument to prove something that was never mentioned by me.

Please stay on track
 

ballen0351

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Isn't that exactly what you do to non-Christian religions? You absolutely deny their validity (which means they're myths and fables) and attribute lots of nastiness to them.
Me no I deny the validity based on facts and I dont attribute nastiness to any religion. Now in the past I have said less then honorable things about Muslim faith. Youth, Anger, lack of understanding and testostrone are more to blame for that but have changed my views.
It's certainly true that religions (including Christianity) have been used to justify an awful lot of nastiness, and it's more than a little silly to pretend otherwise.
People use all kinds of reason to justify anything. If I go out kill 30 people and say Obama made me do it does that mean all Democrats are killers? Thats whats done here. People used Christianity to Justify behavior they know goes against the Christian faith (which is why they need to justify it in the first place). Christians are no more murderers and killers then Muslims are all Terrorists.
L Ron Hubbard (no relation to our own Bob, I assume...) claimed to have been an eyewitness to a lot of stuff I consider nonsense. Yet, his claims are as valid (though more recent) than those you claim as proof of your religious beliefs.

we are not talking about 1 person but hundreds of documented accounts from several different religions and non-religious people were eyewitnesses. Again I dont care if you believe or not the info is out there. I once refused to believe it as well I made the same arguments you all are.

You're free to believe anything you like, but claiming objective proof is simply foolish.
And to deny facts proven over and over again is equally foolish
 

ballen0351

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Please stop changing the focus of your original statement to come off as being right.

Last time. I am not nor have I ever said Jesus did not exist and I never mentioned the resurrection, I am saying the book you are claiming to be written by eye witnesses we do not know if it was or was not written by eyewitnesses. You brought Caesar into this in order to make an argument to prove something that was never mentioned by me.

Please stay on track
Its not just the Bible ther are several texts and documents out there not just Christian documents
 

ballen0351

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Yes it can, but you are changing the focus of the discussion to come out as being right. But I am not arguing the existence of Jesus so this point it moot, I am arguing the validity of the book written about him. And you are the one that threw Ceaser into this in order to say there was some question to his existence...and there isn't, to much historical proof of that. Please stay on topic and focus of what is being discussed



Wrong, we do not know if those claiming to have written them actually ever made that claim themselves since we do not know if they actually wrote them. You are confusing faith with historic fact and they are not the same. Caesar existed, historic fact, Jesus existed, historic fact. But who wrote the stories about Jesus is not historic fact. We don't know who wrote the books and they have been edited (with extreme prejudice by the church) so if you show up in court with a story that you cannot verify the author beyond hearsay and there is evidence that that story has been extremely edited.....how much evidence is it going to be in court....little or none.

Faith is a good thing but truth is truth, we do not know who actually wrote the books of the bible.

I have no reason not to believe the authors are who they say they are and you have no proof they are not who they claim to be so we shall just disagree then No harm no foul
 

Xue Sheng

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I have no reason not to believe the authors are who they say they are and you have no proof they are not who they claim to be so we shall just disagree then No harm no foul

Did they tell you? You just said you "have no reason not to believe the authors are who they say they are". Unless you are actually Methuselah none of the alleged authors have claimed anything. As to proof there is verifiable historic proof that it was heavily edited by the church. My point is and has been throughout this is that what you read today is not what was originally written and there is no historically verifiable proof as to who actually wrote it

Other than that agreed we will disagree on this
 

ballen0351

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Did they tell you? You just said you "have no reason not to believe the authors are who they say they are". Unless you are actually Methuselah none of the alleged authors have claimed anything. As to proof there is verifiable historic proof that it was heavily edited by the church. My point is and has been throughout this is that what you read today is not what was originally written and there is no historically verifiable proof as to who actually wrote it

Other than that agreed we will disagree on this

No nobody has told me anything but several of the "books" are letters written by people that tell you who thet are. I have no reason not to believe them. but we have been warned by the PO-PO so good day
 

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