The Bible does not condemn self defense

[Xue Sheng]

Would it be inappropriate, rude or disrespectful to post part of an index of a humorous, tongue in cheek look at a new, modernized translation of the Good Book that a friend of mine has been writing for the last three years? (He attends Mass every week and considers himself a good Christian)

He always reminds me that God gave him his sense of humor.

I don't think so , but then what do I know, I am more aligned with philosophical Taoism than a Christianity.....

 

[Tez3]

Hey one good turn deserves another, if op has to be a cafeteria christianand tthat's alright then the other person can be a cafeteria Jew lols, I mean its ironic how this thread is about turning the other cheek lols.

Guess you missed the bits about religion and self defence then? The thread is actually about NOT turning the other cheek... quite the opposite.
I'm not a cafeteria Jew, I'm more a 3 Michelin Star restaurant with a kosher menu cooked by Michel Roux Jnr. Jew.

 

[Tez3]

Christianity was originally a Jewish splinter sect, after all.

We have millions of them in fact as many sects as there are Jews.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

We have millions of them in fact as many sects as there are Jews.

Yeah, but Christianity let the gentiles in, possibly in a devious plan to end up with even more sects than there are Jews.

 

[Steve]

I'm curious as to why Xtians believe in the Old Testament and believe it pertains to them. It doesn't bother me a lot that Xtians have taken it to be a Xtian thing but am bemused as to why they would. Put it this way, if I did something here in the UK and used the American Constitution to justify that act saying I had rights under it, I would be told in no uncertain terms that I wasn't an American and I wasn't in the USA so it had nothing to do with me, it belongs to another people, that's the same way I look at the Xtians quoting and using the 'Old Testament', I mean why? More often than not it is mistranslated and misunderstood because there is no commentary. How can it be used without commentary?

I imagine by now PG has long abandoned us to our very interesting and civilised discussion! It has digressed a bit but not far from the premise of SD being allowed because that encompasses people's beliefs which are always interesting. The problem of self defence has taxed the Jewish mind for a long time, due to our status often as 'guests' in a country, do you stand up for yourself and risk making things worse for your people or do you stay quiet and hope it will pass? There's many answers to that conundrum and none of them are wrong or right.

I think the analogy breaks down a little. While also not a perfect analogy, the relationship that Canada has with England, by way of the royal family, is closer to the relationship that Xtians have with the old testament. Liberated from the letter of the law, but still related to it in many ways.

I think that the American/British relationship would be more like us as the Mormons... basically saying, thanks for everything, but we're doing our own thing.

 

[Tez3]

Yeah, but Christianity let the gentiles in, possibly in a devious plan to end up with even more sects than there are Jews.

It's said if you ask ten Jews for an opinion you will get twelve replies I'd say fourteen myself. We do agree on the basics though that Judaism's tenet is treat people as you would want to be treated and all else is commentary.

 

[oftheherd1]

I'm curious as to why Xtians believe in the Old Testament and believe it pertains to them. It doesn't bother me a lot that Xtians have taken it to be a Xtian thing but am bemused as to why they would. Put it this way, if I did something here in the UK and used the American Constitution to justify that act saying I had rights under it, I would be told in no uncertain terms that I wasn't an American and I wasn't in the USA so it had nothing to do with me, it belongs to another people, that's the same way I look at the Xtians quoting and using the 'Old Testament', I mean why? More often than not it is mistranslated and misunderstood because there is no commentary. How can it be used without commentary?

I imagine by now PG has long abandoned us to our very interesting and civilised discussion! It has digressed a bit but not far from the premise of SD being allowed because that encompasses people's beliefs which are always interesting. The problem of self defence has taxed the Jewish mind for a long time, due to our status often as 'guests' in a country, do you stand up for yourself and risk making things worse for your people or do you stay quiet and hope it will pass? There's many answers to that conundrum and none of them are wrong or right.

Tez3 - Since you say you have not read the New Testament, I can understand how you might have trouble understanding. I have the advantage in having read the Old Testament as well as the New Testament. When New Testament writers talked about scripture, they were normally speaking of what we now call the Old Testament. Jesus was a Jew, and He and others often quoted from the Old Testament, validating Noah and Jonah, among others. The Old Testament tells us how God created the world, how he chose a people to be His own, and many moral rules to live by. We believe the Old Testament has many prophecies about Jesus, that are fulfilled in the New Testament, including the virgin birth of Jesus, His crucificxion, His clothing being divided, and His resurrection, and that he was the Christ. How could we not believe it? So you see, you have to share it with us. If it's any consolation, I would be happy to share the New Testament with you. ;-)

 

[oftheherd1]

It was a sincere question. I'm always interested in how people decide on their beliefs, whether or not I agree with them.

Some follow-up questions:

When you say Fundamental Baptists, are you referring to a specific organization, such as the FBFI or are you saying that KJVOnly-ism is universal among IFB congregations in general?

Am I correct in interpreting your answer to mean that you based your decision to believe in the KJV as the one true English-language Bible based on reading books such as the ones you cite? If so, have you also read books arguing for other translations and/or books arguing that there is no one true perfect translation?

In that case;

Did you examine all the other English translations and compare?
Did you study ancient Greek and Hebrew and examine the earliest manuscripts in those languages?
Are you following some particular religious leader who has endorsed the KJV as the only true word?
Did you receive a personal divine revelation telling you which translation is correct?

I absolutely have not examined all other English translations. I have read books that point out discrepancies between the KJV and other translations, as well as how different translations disagree among themselves. I have compared a few translations with the KJV to see where they differ. I have not tried to obtain copies of all the many translations, but some are viewable online.

I have not examined the earliest manuscripts, although I have seen photos of them. I have not studied ancient or modern Hebrew. I have obtained some books on Koine Greek, and taught myself a little. I am by no means an expert. However, I can look at and compare Alexandrian and Antiochian Greek based translations and their underlying Greek. Again, I am not even close to educated in Greek, but I can gather insights.

Most all fundamental preachers will endorse the KJV as the only true word of God in the English language. If you are alluding to cults, no, I am not nor would be a cult member.

No, God hasn't given me a personal divine revelation. I get no more than is available to everyone.

 

[Dr.Smith]

Would it be inappropriate, rude or disrespectful to post part of an index of a humorous, tongue in cheek look at a new, modernized translation of the Good Book that a friend of mine has been writing for the last three years? (He attends Mass every week and considers himself a good Christian)

He always reminds me that God gave him his sense of humor.

Why should anyone take offense about it lols, I wouldn't. Its funny to me how people get so bent out ta shape about what other people believe. I mean why don't we persecute children for their false belief in the tooth fairy, and as for you ogres that preach the doctrine of Santa and the easter bunny well were after you to, lols. Rubbish.

 

[Cirdan]

Don`t get me started on "Santa"..

 

[Tez3]

We believe the Old Testament has many prophecies about Jesus, that are fulfilled in the New Testament, including the virgin birth of Jesus, His crucificxion, His clothing being divided, and His resurrection, and that he was the Christ. How could we not believe it? So you see, you have to share it with us. If it's any consolation, I would be happy to share the New Testament with you. ;-)

You'll understand if I say no thank you politely
The trouble is that while there are prophecies, the main one wasn't fulfilled..that of when the messiah came it would be the end of the world, as it wasn't ( we are still here...I think) it's only logical to believe that he hasn't come yet, there is nothing about two comings! sharing the 'Old Testament' though isn't really sharing when things are taken wildly out of context and there are no commentaries to go with what is being read which is maybe why people think prophecies have been fulfilled when they haven't. It's good talking though, understanding others is important despite what some think!



Dr. Smith, you obviously fail to understand that a discussion is going on here between people who are interested in other beliefs, it doesn't matter whether you believe in what we do or not, as you can se what I believe is not the same as others and what they believe is not the same as I believe but that's what makes it interesting and if we can discuss without being disrespectful or scoffing at each other surely you can keep your remarks to yourself unless you have something constructive to add. This is following a pattern of other posts you have made on other threads and aren't at all helpful to anyone's understanding nor are they in the spirit of any friendly discussion.

Cirdan, we didn't have 'Father Christmas' here until relatively recent times, that came with Queen Victoria's marriage to a German in the 19th CE. In fact Christmas wasn't celebrated as such here until he arrived, it was a religious day but not as it is now ( when anyone of any religion or none can happily celebrate it as all religious significance seems to have fled) Easter was the big religious festival. Many historians and experts have pointed out the similarity of Easter and previous pagan festivals. Most populations in the Northern Hemisphere where it's dark and cold during the winter have a festival of some type usually involving lights at midwinter, something those who live in warm 'light' countries won't understand the need for as we do! As Jews don't deny Odin, we wouldn't worship him but we understand that while our beliefs and religion are right for us, others have their's too we don't look to convert but rather just respect and live with others.

 

[Dr.Smith]

No to most of what you said with only a few exceptions. I'm interested in your religious views and I have fought and would fight and die to protect them, but I feel and think that way about all religious beliefs and groups that are willing to live either in harmony or quiet objection with others.
Since we are speaking about the bible I think its important to point out that its highly advised against to cause harm or injury in any way to people just starting a spiritual journey. Let's try to observe and facilitate the spiritual growth of others instead of manipulate and frown upon it, not saying anyone specifically is doing that...just a friendly suggestion.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Don`t get me started on "Santa"..

Actually I picture this

 

[Tony Dismukes]

We have millions of them in fact as many sects as there are Jews.

It goes back a bit, I hear ...

REG: Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the lovely Judean People's Front.
P.F.J.: Yeah...
JUDITH: Splitters.
P.F.J.: Splitters...
FRANCIS: And the Judean Popular People's Front.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
LORETTA: And the People's Front of Judea.
P.F.J.: Yeah. Splitters. Splitters...
REG: What?
LORETTA: The People's Front of Judea. Splitters.
REG: We're the People's Front of Judea!
LORETTA: Oh. I thought we were the Popular Front.
REG: People's Front! C-huh.
FRANCIS: Whatever happened to the Popular Front, Reg?
REG: He's over there.
P.F.J.: Splitter!

Yeah, but Christianity let the gentiles in, possibly in a devious plan to end up with even more sects than there are Jews.

Emo Phillips agrees ...

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off.
So I ran over and said "Stop! don't do it!" "Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!" He said, "Like what?"
I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?" He said, "Religious." I said, "Me too!
Are you christian or buddhist?" He said, "Christian." I said, "Me too!
Are you catholic or protestant?" He said, "Protestant." I said, "Me too!
Are you episcopalian or baptist?" He said, "Baptist!" I said,"Wow! Me too!
Are you baptist church of god or baptist church of the lord?" He said, "Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too!
Are you original baptist church of god, or are you reformed baptist church of god?" He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!" I said, "Me too!
Are you reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?" He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!"
I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

 

[Tez3]

No to most of what you said with only a few exceptions. I'm interested in your religious views and I have fought and would fight and die to protect them, but I feel and think that way about all religious beliefs and groups that are willing to live either in harmony or quiet objection with others.
Since we are speaking about the bible I think its important to point out that its highly advised against to cause harm or injury in any way to people just starting a spiritual journey. Let's try to observe and facilitate the spiritual growth of others instead of manipulate and frown upon it, not saying anyone specifically is doing that...just a friendly suggestion.

I'm not sure what you think you are reading but no one here has tried to manipulate anyone nor has anyone frowned on anyone else so why you would bring that up I have no idea. Oftheherd, Cirdan and I as well as others have been on MT for a very long time,years in fact, we get on well so I'm not sure what you, as a newbie are trying to insinuate.

 

[Tez3]

 

[Dr.Smith]

First off, I have a mental health condition, second off I'm not all interested in validating your points for you, I think if they were valid that it would speak for its self. Never ever will I answer snarky questions, I suggest you do the same, its liberating actually. Take it as free advice and you'll see its better this way. It might even keep you out of a mental hospital.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Never ever will I answer snarky questions,

But yet you make snarky comments and apparently think that is ok....

 

[Tony Dismukes]

First off, I have a mental health condition, second off I'm not all interested in validating your points for you, I think if they were valid that it would speak for its self. Never ever will I answer snarky questions, I suggest you do the same, its liberating actually. Take it as free advice and you'll see its better this way. It might even keep you out of a mental hospital.

Well then, it's a good thing that no one was asking you any questions (snarky or otherwise) or asking you to validate their points.

 

[Tez3]

First off, I have a mental health condition, second off I'm not all interested in validating your points for you, I think if they were valid that it would speak for its self. Never ever will I answer snarky questions, I suggest you do the same, its liberating actually. Take it as free advice and you'll see its better this way. It might even keep you out of a mental hospital.

Bollocks.