The best place to become a warrior?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Joab, Mar 25, 2010.

  1. Joab

    Joab 2nd Black Belt

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    What's Jtf2?
     
  2. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    I do not like fakes. Stop talking now.
     
  3. Ken Morgan

    Ken Morgan Senior Master

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  4. Bill Mattocks

    Bill Mattocks Sr. Grandmaster

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    Marines are not cage fighters, and although we train in hand-to-hand combat, we train to kill, not to stop. We do not train in self-defense, we train to destroy, overrun, and dominate. It's not a fair comparison, because even a cage fighter stops when his enemy can no longer defend himself. We kill. But it's a different environment; what's appropriate on the battlefield is not appropriate in the ring or the dojo.

    Our primary tool is not our empty hands, but a rifle:

    There is nothing in all the world like a US Marine. Some fun quotes:

    Every service has a 'special forces', and the Marines have Recon, but it's not the same; Marines *are* special forces. All of us.

    And as any soldier who spent any time on a combined arms exercise or in a combat zone with Marines can tell you, you never fight one Marine. You take on one, you take on all. Army of One? No thanks. We fight together, we're a unit, a group, we're Brothers in Arms. We don't fight fair, we take what we want and paint "USMC" on everything that we capture from friend or foe. We do more with less and complain about it unceasingly from morning until night. The most dangerous Marine in the world is the one who has quit bitching, because now he's good and mad. Whereas soldiers don't like being called 'doggies' and sailors don't like being called 'squids', we have no problem being called Jarheads, Gyrenes, Leathernecks, Grunts, Canon Cockers, Mud Puppies, or Sea-Going Bellhops. We know it's just envy. Everybody wants to be one of us; most don't pack the gear. We don't take just anyone, and no one who enlists is entitled to call themselves "Marine" until graduation day. And once a Marine, we are that forever; it can never be taken away from us. There are no ex-Marines, there are no former Marines, there are only Marines and everybody else. If you're not a Marine, well, you're not part of the brotherhood.

    We're the hub of the universe, baby.

    Our dress blues are the best looking uniforms ever since the German SS. The Marine NCO in dress blues with the blood stripe and the NCO sword is a sight that makes women swoon. We kick *** and take names. We're heart-breakers and life-takers. We're a bunch of swaggering, insufferable, pricks, and that's how it goes. We walk it like we talk it.

    [yt]
    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/UwY67LYzH7Q&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/UwY67LYzH7Q&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>
    [/yt]

    We're everywhere, still Marines, old and out-of-shape, working in every profession, hardly recognizable anymore. But one thing I know, one thing every Marine knows, is that if the crap hits the fan, we only have to call for our brothers and they will come running. No Marine ever turns his back on a brother. We are the real deal, there's nothing else.

    To be a brother in that band of brothers is like winning the lottery over and over again every day for life.
     
  5. Draven

    Draven Green Belt

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    Hey, Bill hate to tell you this but Marines are not Special Forces thats a BS recruiter claim. Special Forces refers to a specific military field intelligence & light infantry units. MARSOC didn't exist until 2005 & Special Forces (what civilians call "Green Barrets") has been the domain of SOC at Fort Bragg, as well as the 75th Rangers which gets its place under US joint Forces Command in VA. More so, even though Marines serve under USJFCOM missions and guidelines, the Corps nor Force Recon is funded under USJFCOM as a Special Operations Force until 2005 with the birth of MARSOC.

    The fact remains, Marines often get better training due to being such a small force & their small size is what forces all Marine's to Riflemen they don't have enough bodies to go around around. To be honest Marine Infantry & Army Infantry are basicly the same now a days; Marines get more rifle time on in Bootcamp but the first month was all PT, D&C and classes.
     
  6. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Of course patriotism demands one to be biased but I was pointing out that in terms of training the USMC doesn't seem to have a very long basic training time. thats not a disrepectuful comment but our Royal Marine Commandos do 36 wks basic then specialised courses. I'm curious as to why they have such a short training time.

    I understand why the USMC think they are the best in the world but there's many who would contend they are the best United States Marines only. We know how good our guys are so feel no need to boast.
     
  7. blink13

    blink13 Green Belt

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    Draven, could you tell us your military background? Just basic stuff - branch of service, MOS, combat experience. Thanks.
     
  8. blink13

    blink13 Green Belt

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    Maybe your Nods just don't learn as quickly? ;)
     
  9. Carol

    Carol Crazy like a...

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    Even the rodents in the Marines are tough ;)

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    They learn quickly and well, it's just we teach them more and in depth.

    http://www.army.mod.uk/training_education/training/18145.aspx


    http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/regiments/3471.aspx

    http://www.army.mod.uk/join/terms/3733.aspx
    Being a soldier is not easy. We are asked to do things not asked of other people. We have to be aggresive and strong in battle, yet behave properly and show self-control all the time. To enable us to do this the Army has 6 Values it requires us to live by.
    Selfless Commitment

    The Army is about teamwork - none of us work on our own, we always work in a team. Teams can only be effective if we all play our part in full, putting the team and the mission before our own needs, trusting each other totally - even with our lives if necessary.
    Courage

    All soldiers need courage, both physical and moral. Physical courage is about controlling fear, rather than having no fear. Training and discipline helps us do our duty regardless of the dangers and discomforts. Moral courage is about doing the right thing, not looking the other way when we know or see something is wrong, even if it is not a popular thing to do or say.
    Discipline

    All teams need discipline. In our line of work it is vital, ensuring that orders are carried out and everyone is confident that they will not be let down by their team mates. Self-discipline is the best form of discipline. It depends on high personal standards that earn soldiers the trust and respect of their team mates. It gives us the courage to make the difficult choices that we face in our career.
    Integrity

    Integrity means being honest, not lying cheating or stealing. If we lack integrity our team mates cannot trust what we say or do; they cannot rely on us and the team suffers.
    Loyalty

    Loyalty is about looking after and helping those around us. Putting the needs of our team mates before our own, even when the going gets tough.
    Respect For Others

    Soldiers come in all shapes and sizes and all deserve to be treated fairly. There is no place for any form of harassment or discrimination in an Army that claims to 'Be The Best'.
    Discrimination damages teams. It excludes members and does not give them the chance to contribute. The Army recognises the importance of humour, but humour must be inclusive. Humour that insults, ridicules or intimidates people is destructive and damages the team.
    Respect for others is part of the trust between a soldier and his team mates We judge people on their abilities, not their race, religion or sex.
    Respect for others, including civilians, detainees and captured enemy forces, means treating people decently.



    The Army's Standards are designed to ensure that every soldier's behaviour is:
    • lawful;
    • appropriate;
    • and totally professional.
    Low standards, both professional and personal, damage the team and could cause injury or death on operations. This is why the Army depends on high standards and has a more demanding approach towards certain types of behaviour and relationships than the rest of society.
    Lawful

    Obey the law, all the time, wherever you are serving.
    All soldiers are subject to the law wherever they are serving.
    On operations this includes international law, the laws of armed conflict and, in some cases, civil law.

    The Army needs to be tough and aggressive, and in doing our job we face people who break the law. This does not mean we can break the law. We must always keep our self-control, however angry or provoked we might be, because no soldier is ever above the law.
    Appropriate Behaviour

    Don't offend others
    Trust underpins all our behaviour. Therefore, because our job depends upon:
    • putting others' needs before our own;
    • honesty;
    • and supporting our team mates,
    the Army needs a more demanding standard of social behaviour from us.
    Social misbehaviour, particularly the wrong sort of relationship, can undermine trust. Unwelcome sexual attention, taking sexual advantage of someone more junior or an affair with the partner of a team mate may damage the integrity and honesty of those involved, and damage the team.
    Total Professionalism

    Be The Best
    As British Soldiers we are trained to the highest standards. It is vital that we maintain those standards both on and off duty.
    The responsible use of alcohol is part of Army life, but binge drinking is unprofessional, dangerous and damages health.
    The use of illegal drugs is against the law and is harmful. The effects of drugs can remain in the body for a long time, affecting performance on operations. Soldiers who are caught using illegal drugs can expect to be discharged.
    Uncontrolled debt and heavy gambling shows a lack of self-discipline, causing other to lose trust in us.


    A big part of British military training is teaching leadership skills so that every soldier has the capacity in a frontline wartime situation to take charge, self discipline is high rated and expected from all. There is no mindless obedience drilled into witless, terrified recruits, each member of the team must be able to fulfil many roles. The technical training an infantry soldier receives is second to none.
    We also train the Gurkhas and the Paras here. Try P Company if you want to see how real soldiers train lol!. Have a look at Fighting Fit mag for Feb/Mar.
     
  11. blink13

    blink13 Green Belt

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    Wow, that sure was a lot of information!

    Funny, though, I missed the part where they said they kill people.

    That's what we do in wartime.
     
  12. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Now, I think you are being disrepectful. I seem to remember American soldiers being issued cards which told them not to drink with British soldiers, play cards with them or fight with them because they will lose everytime. Our soldiers actually try not to kill innocent people celebrating weddings or living in Vietnamese villages, they don't go for overkill nor do they glory in killing making macho You Tube videos singing how they are going to kill kill kill but never ever mistake a British soldier's politeness for weakness.
    I think we may have a tad more experience with wars than you have, enough to know that killing people is a necessary evil not one to glory in.
     
  13. blink13

    blink13 Green Belt

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    The OP asked where to become a warrior. Warriors kill in wartime. It's a necessary evil. Let's not bring up atrocities. Guilty parties have always been tried and punished for their crimes. Don't lump the rest of us in with the criminals, please.

    Regarding war experience, what is your wartime experience? I have two combat tours in Iraq - one during the invasion with a Light Armored Reconnaissance Unit, and the other with an Engineer Support Battalion. On my last combat tour, I was in command of over two hundred Marines. I have traded bullets with bad guys and have been decorated for valor. I saw many Marines NOT to shots when they probably should have for fear of hitting innocents. I like to think I know something about the topic.

    I have always respected the Brits and our other allies. I've been to schools with them, drank with them, and even traded food and magazines with your guys prior to crossing the line in 2003. Let's not get personal. It's all in fun.
     
  14. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    No, not fun actually.

    I was 14 Int.
     
  15. blink13

    blink13 Green Belt

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    BTW, my avatar photo was taken south of Ramadi in May 2008. We were in the planning process to build a road that would divert military traffic out of the downtown area, allowing us to make less of a footprint in their city and their daily lives.

    Also, I proudly call myself a Sapper, as I am a combat engineer and a graduate of the U.S. Army's Sapper Leader Course (unfortunate Army, but they have great schools). We all, of course, got the term "Sapper" from the Brits. :tip:
     
  16. blink13

    blink13 Green Belt

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    By "fun" I meant interservice/country stuff - not war. Trust me, war is not fun.

    I apologize if I offended, but I will ALWAYS defend my Corps. :)
     
  17. Brian King

    Brian King Master of Arts

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    Once when I was a child I was visiting a friend’s home and we heard a load ruckus out in the living room. Investigating I found their family pet, one of them little lap dog things like you see in them Victorian paintings. This vicious brute was unleashing a terrible racket, growling and barking like it was in the fight of its life. Concerned I looked about thinking perhaps an intruder or another dog or other animal had gained entry to the house. I had to look close to find out what the dog was warring about. Seems two or three house fly’s had been picking on the dog by buzzing too close to it. Well, they had another dog in that house, a big mild mannered working dog. This guy also hearing the commotion came lazily into the room looked about and let out a single double bark..loud and sharp. The little yapper busy with its war hadn’t noticed or cared that it had an audience until the other dog barked. Hearing that bark the little yapper yelped and pissed a line into the corner and then sat there shaking like it was freezing. Learned a lesson that day, the little yappy dogs seem to get upset and raise a lot of noise but are harmless and insecure especially when the big dogs come around.

    Not much of this story relates to where to learn to become a warrior or whose soldier or their fans have the biggest package, but I thought it was amusing much like many of the posts in this thread.

    Thanks all for your services to your countries whatever that service and whichever country you happen to serve.

    Regards
    Brian King
     
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  18. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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  19. Draven

    Draven Green Belt

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    Joined the USMC right out of highschool in 98, turn 18 on Paris Island and went US Army in 01 ETSed in 05 (3 year contract with an 18 month stop loss to got to Iraq) with 1/503 Air assault. Went Infantry both times & after ETS went reserve MP till 08 I got general discharge for beating some LEOs to put in a nutshell...

    Same tactics and same general training, as for what I referenced above it break down like this under USJFCOM is USSOC which overseas the Special Operations Forces of the other branchs; US Army Rangers, Special Forces, Navy SEALs and Air Force Pararescue. All the Marine corps budget flows through the Navy (it why there is no Marine Joint Chiefs as the USMC is a department of the Navy) Marine Force Recon had the short end of the stick with no USSOC funding until 05 with the creation of MARSOC. Force recon had funding set aside but that was at the USMC level. Force recon was an elite force with an elite force, but were never technically Special Forces (as that denotes a specific unit within the US Army) or a Special Operations Unit as they had were directly connected to USSOC (aka USSOCOM).
     
  20. Cirdan

    Cirdan Senior Master

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    Hmm I guess I was lucky we never got around to play cards then.

    Ah, the old argument. Americans say they got the best army, the British reply that the US only are the most powerful and don`t fight as smart as them. Can`t say I totally disagree.123
     

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