The benefits of co-ed grappling

Lisa

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In my school we grapple with the opposite sex and I was wondering how other instructors/ students felt about coed grappling? Is there a lot of apprehension due to the techniques with triangles and the positions they put you into or is it a comfortable atmosphere and not problems. How does your instructor deal with new people and their apprehensions, men and women alike. I would think that it cannot be helped for the majority of the school students are men. Also, what benefits can you, as a student, see in co-ed grappling.



When I first started grappling I must admit being somewhat inhibited. I think the reason I kept grappling was the attitude the instructor had. Basically, we were there to train. Our atmosphere is friendly and often light-hearted. There is no room for ego. From the men in my class I have learned to make sure that they are off balance before doing many of the sweeps, to use their strength against them. I have had to be able to think two moves ahead and technique has to be perfect for me to be successful because their simple strength can often win me over. I hate it when a guy uses sheer strength during a sparring match, it leaves both of us learning nothing.
 

jfarnsworth

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As I said in another thread; gender to me means nothing (at least to me). I've grappled with females before and it's just another body. Obviously men are generally stronger and bigger than women but that's no reason to no let women work on their techniques. If men didn't do their part on giving a fair enough match then they are giving a bad diservice to the females. If a woman were to get attacked and couldn't defend herself properly then that's a problem. There are far too many ego's out there that would get hurt if a woman were to beat them fairly :rolleyes: . I say who cares everyone is in the studio to learn.
 
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Vadim

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In my school we also grapple co-ed. I think overall it is a positive experience. I do sense that some women feel uncomfortable at first grappling with the opposite sex, but we are at the school to train. Every student trains in a professional manner and horseplay is not tolerated. I never look to dominate a female or any other male who is just starting to grapple because all that will accomplish is making the person fearful and they will not enjoy that aspect of the training. I have seen some females dominate males in grappling and it was quite a scene.

I view grappling as a chess game and part of that game is strategy. Regardless of who I am training with I will view them as a fellow student that I can either learn from or teach something to. I say just have fun and train.

-Vadim
 

Blooming Lotus

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okay. I'll bite.

I'm not exactly what you'd call insecure and I recently did a couple of weeks training where I was the only female amongst some big and mostly older men( and most experienced and cutest maer ;) :D) in attendance. I had a round or several with each of them on different techs etc and it was amusing to see them hesitate and/ or freeze when I was in their nether regions as I easily executed what I set out to do. ( and alot of these men were 6ft + and approaching or over 40) . It's nearly endearing as an after thought but to be honest, I don't particulary care what sex they are either, an opponent is an opponent, but if their shock, shyness or embarressment and modesty is going to get them to drop their guard and will open the gap that allows me to take the win, well it's oookay with me ;) . Lol ..you fight your fight and execute your moves.

See the opponent and not the person is my tip.

Cheers

Blooming Lotus
 

MJS

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Well, like anything, the student should know well in advance what he/she are getting themselves into. Questions about what the class is like should be asked, and the inst. should be able to provide them with a detailed description.

That being said...I see nothing wrong with a co-ed grappling class. There are women in my class and they're just as eager to roll as the next person. I do think that its important, even in a stand up art, for men and women to work together. The more people you can work with the better on your part, as it'll improve your tech. greatly.

In addition, for women looking to be able to defend themselves, its good to work with a male on the techs. Chances are, if a female is going to get attacked, it'll be by a male, not another woman.

Mike
 
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getgoin

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I haven't ever trained in a school where they seperate the the two. I don't think that I ever would. Women get attacked by men and women, men get attacked by men and women. I don't see a benifit to either group by seperating them.
 

Sarah

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Great Thread Lisa.

I train at two Dojo's, and they are a little different.....at my MMA Dojo, the juniors tend to stick to the same sex, this could be due to a couple of things, all the girls (besides from Raewyn and I) are about 14-15 yrs old and quite small, so they tend to stay together at this point. Also we don’t do a lot a grappling there just yet, I’m sure they will have to mix it up as we go up the ranks!

Raewyn and I also train in Ju Jistu, so we are a little more confident with our grappling, we roll with each other or if we swap partners we will grab the (older) guys in the class over the young girls or young guys....

At our JJ dojo, we are the only girls...so again we have to train with the boys, but that is fine because they are great, they don’t act weird with us like some of our fellow MMA students.

So I guess aside from Raewyn I would choose to roll with senior men over other woman, they are stronger and more of a challenge....I get my butt kicked, but I sure do learn a lot!

Before I started training in JJ I would have stuck to only woman, just lack of confidence, I saw this as holding me back a lot, that is why I started JJ, sort of facing my fear....who would have thought I would have ended up loving it!

 

MA-Caver

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Nalia said:


In my school we grapple with the opposite sex and I was wondering how other instructors/ students felt about coed grappling? Is there a lot of apprehension due to the techniques with triangles and the positions they put you into or is it a comfortable atmosphere and not problems. How does your instructor deal with new people and their apprehensions, men and women alike. I would think that it cannot be helped for the majority of the school students are men. Also, what benefits can you, as a student, see in co-ed grappling.



When I first started grappling I must admit being somewhat inhibited. I think the reason I kept grappling was the attitude the instructor had. Basically, we were there to train. Our atmosphere is friendly and often light-hearted. There is no room for ego. From the men in my class I have learned to make sure that they are off balance before doing many of the sweeps, to use their strength against them. I have had to be able to think two moves ahead and technique has to be perfect for me to be successful because their simple strength can often win me over. I hate it when a guy uses sheer strength during a sparring match, it leaves both of us learning nothing.
For women I can see the benefits of learning grappling techniques and the reasons are pretty obvious. If men allow the amount of give (during pratice/training) necessary for a woman to complete a move then she knows what she needs to accomplish it. The right amount of leverage and timing. Timing is very important because an assailant cannot be on balance every time. When you can know and sense the attacker/opponent is off balance is the time to perform whatever move opportunity presents itself and it helps achieve victory.
Men can learn control in the application of their strength. Knowing when and how much pressure to exert without going over. I have fun grappling with kids and it teaches me to know when to stop before or right at the borderline of pain... so I don't put too much pressure and hurt them. The same goes with adults when in a real-life situation one needs to subdue them to defuse a volitile situation.
A man utilizing his strength over a weaker opponent (man or woman) is definitely accomplishing nothing in terms of learning/teaching techniques. But *sigh* boys will be boys. :rolleyes:

Another side benefit is when practicing with a significant other (whether if they're in a MA or not) one can learn a new Karma Sutra technique :uhyeah:
 
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Lisa

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I agree with you MACaver, grappling kids it a lot of fun. Makes you think more about what you are doing because you usually have thsi crazy little body sprawled across you giving it their all and I/we at our school try very hard to allow the child to submit us if proper technique is being used even though we can muscle out of pretty much everything. The kids faces are priceless when they make you tap out. Quite a big accomplishment is felt by them when taking on an adult. :D
 

Blooming Lotus

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Exactly, so really the size or strength of an opponent is what we train for, especially for women who in reality will often be the smaller and need to rely more heavily on their skills. When fighting larger ppl, I like to be more vigilant but don't fear their size, train your skills and techs to defend it. Well trained techniques should just take care of themselves regardless of who's using them or who it's against, best tech and timing wins.
Elite performance is clinical. Execute, execute execute!
 

Aqua4ever

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We have co-ed grappling, and mostly it doesn't bother me at all, you just get into the mindset that they're no longer a guy/girl, they;re just a person trying to get either the air out of you or put u in a very uncomfortable position and you have to get out of it. I too hate it when the guys use pure strength, i'm brutally out matched both weight and strength and it makes the excersie pointless since i can't practice anything. Thankfully they're mostly pretty good.
My $.02
 

KajuMom

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Our school doesn't seem to have stated rules regarding co-ed grappling. Grappling is a required part of the kajukenbo curriculum at our school and is practiced in the women's only class and in the "mixed gender" class.

Our classes also often have a "light hearted" tone, many students have been training together for years. My experience has been that higher ranking women feel comfortable participating in the mixed class and most of the men seem fine with it. The women who attend the mixed class regularly are the best women grapplers at the school (but they're also the higher ranks). I think it's likely that some women are not comfortable grappling men and they can always attend the women's class.

If there is more than one woman in a mixed gender class, the instructor pairs them up together regardless of size. Frequently though, there is only one woman in the class. In that case, there is a lot of rotation between partners, which I think is a good thing.

I feel most comfortable grappling with higher ranking men. They seem to feel the least uncomfortable with the situation and have lots of knowledge and tips. Also, by black belt and above, they usually don't feel they have anything to prove, at least the black belts at our school, and can spend more time helping you to get better rather than trying to beat you on strength.

Grappling is by far the most challenging part of my curriculum and I think most of the women I train with feel the same way. But we also know that it is a skill that can possibly save us if we are attacked in "real life."
 
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Erik

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When I was teaching grappling to women I told them simply that this sport gets personal - we're in guard, we're sweating and occasionally bleeding on each other, and it feels horrible to feel powerless under someone who is stronger, heavier, or simply more capable. And, quite simply, it hurts.

This is the nature of the sport.

They will just have to get used to it.

This wasn't a problem for my group as two of the three were already amature kickboxers, each with more fights than I had. They had plenty of guts and handled the adjustment very well.

I think we owe it to our female teammates to train realistically with them. If they wish to be prepared for a real fight, they will need to be able to deal with stronger and heavier opponents. It's hard but we owe it to them to be real with them in the same way we would be with a guy in their weightclass.

That being said, all of us on the mat are there to train ourselves and our buddies as best as we can. We want out female teammates to be potent and capable, not harrassed. These are our sisters, moms, aunts and friends.

I think that showing a little consideration at first, asking them if you're rolling too aggressively or too heavy handedly, and actively hearing their response will overcome a lot of barriers.

And once there is at least one woman who is "in" the game it will be a lot easier for new women to get going as they'll have a role model who knows how to carry herself already.
 
G

getgoin

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Erik said:
When I was teaching grappling to women I told them simply that this sport gets personal - we're in guard, we're sweating and occasionally bleeding on each other, and it feels horrible to feel powerless under someone who is stronger, heavier, or simply more capable. And, quite simply, it hurts.

This is the nature of the sport.

They will just have to get used to it.

This wasn't a problem for my group as two of the three were already amature kickboxers, each with more fights than I had. They had plenty of guts and handled the adjustment very well.

I think we owe it to our female teammates to train realistically with them. If they wish to be prepared for a real fight, they will need to be able to deal with stronger and heavier opponents. It's hard but we owe it to them to be real with them in the same way we would be with a guy in their weightclass.

That being said, all of us on the mat are there to train ourselves and our buddies as best as we can. We want out female teammates to be potent and capable, not harrassed. These are our sisters, moms, aunts and friends.

I think that showing a little consideration at first, asking them if you're rolling too aggressively or too heavy handedly, and actively hearing their response will overcome a lot of barriers.

And once there is at least one woman who is "in" the game it will be a lot easier for new women to get going as they'll have a role model who knows how to carry herself already.
Well said.
 

Raewyn

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Sarah said:
Great Thread Lisa.

I train at two Dojo's, and they are a little different.....at my MMA Dojo, the juniors tend to stick to the same sex, this could be due to a couple of things, all the girls (besides from Raewyn and I) are about 14-15 yrs old and quite small, so they tend to stay together at this point. Also we don’t do a lot a grappling there just yet, I’m sure they will have to mix it up as we go up the ranks!

Raewyn and I also train in Ju Jistu, so we are a little more confident with our grappling, we roll with each other or if we swap partners we will grab the (older) guys in the class over the young girls or young guys....

At our JJ dojo, we are the only girls...so again we have to train with the boys, but that is fine because they are great, they don’t act weird with us like some of our fellow MMA students.

So I guess aside from Raewyn I would choose to roll with senior men over other woman, they are stronger and more of a challenge....I get my butt kicked, but I sure do learn a lot!

Before I started training in JJ I would have stuck to only woman, just lack of confidence, I saw this as holding me back a lot, that is why I started JJ, sort of facing my fear....who would have thought I would have ended up loving it!

Great post Sarah. It's great to be able to grapple with guys. I've never really had a problem with it, as long as the guys know what their doing, you can learn alot!!!!
 
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Lisa

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Raisin said:
Great post Sarah. It's great to be able to grapple with guys. I've never really had a problem with it, as long as the guys know what their doing, you can learn alot!!!!
Have to agree with you Raisin. Sarah brings up very good points. Actually everyone does.

I personally enjoy grappling with the men in my school. They are challenging and a whole lotta fun. I understand how new women would feel inhibited. We have one new young female girl who is not quite sure about grappling with the big guys yet. So far she only grapples with my daughter and the instructor. Once she is made more comfortable and gets to know the other guys better, I am sure she will relax and come around. Its all about personal space with people and where their boundaries are. Some can leap in and some need time to get used to the idea. As long as they have an open mind, they can truly learn lots from the experience.
 

James Kovacich

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I'm all for co-ed grappling :uhyeah:

Seriously though, given the numbers of men vs. women in grappling schools (although many women are grappling and competing today) I think it really couldn't be avoided without limiting our "rotations" with our partners.

I think the real separation should be between the juniors and adults, thats about it unless a student just does not want to roll with the opposite sex.
 
P

peligro1

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Some guy I know at the place I roll at was going through a grappling drill in class last month. His partner was a female and the whole time I could tell he was trying hard to place and slip his hands and arms into very "convenient" and intimate locations... It was kind of sick but it was also pretty funny. I asked him about it later and he completely denied it. I guess some people can't handle working with the opposite sex.
 
E

Erik

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That's lame and childish.

While he's messing around and not paying attention to the match, I hope she submits him hard.

That will teach him.
 
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peligro1

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I don't remember her submitting him, but she sure did give him alot of trouble until the drill was over...
 

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