Technique Discussion: Dropping The Storm & 5 Swords

[ATACX GYM]

So, i just looked at your alternating maces series. good stuff. Something in the technique reminded me of our combination #3.

I show our version more in the ideal phase at the link above. But feel free to search for it elsewhere to get a more complete idea. I have torn my achilles, so, I cannot put anything up right now compareable to your excellent series. When I am up and about again i would love to exchange concepts through a video medium suc as youtube. If you are interested. I, at least see it as an excellent learning opportunity.

this one gives a little idea of some of the ramping up that we do. It was not made specifically to show that but it is mentioned and will give an idea. The embu, shown is actually way too fast for beginners and even advanced students should start off much slower an then speed it up only later.The slow motion movement is to train alignment while fighting and to help the students learn to relax enough to be fast, opportunistic and learn how to control with contact.Yousee quite clearly near the end where Colin takes hold of my head at one point when I tried something silly. No greater feedback and reality check than thinking "what about this knd of move" and someone taking control of your spine by getting a hold of your head. Learn what works, learn what doesn't in a safe environment so that structural alignment takes precedence, is a huge part of the goal of embu

Respectfully,
Marlon

Do you spar with any of these techniques? While I do absolutely agree with you that the mindset in worst case SD scenarios is much more intense than in sparring,I believe that the closest psychological prep we can giv is basically an oversaturation of intense sparring which prepares the mind quite thoroughly to deal with the escalated violence and brutality of a SD scenario.It's not that thaaat far of a leap for most SD scenarios and most attackers lack the skill technique athleticism and whatnot to pose a genuine threat to us.Consider Navy SEALs training for instance.Despite the fact that they don't regularly breach live enemy nuclear facilites and whatever other harrowing feats they regulary perform because they believe that there is no practical "practice oriented" substitute for the real thing; instead they apply functional training and creativity and do not only quite well but AMAZINGLY well facing threats the likes of which we'll never face.SWAT,ATF,HRT and many others prove that functional training paradigms prepare us as well as we can be prepared for the worst kinds of threats,and number one in effectiveness is sparring and live fire exercises.We martial artists should imho do exactly the same,subjecting our techniques to real world testing,and we'll see immediately that the IP in ANY FORM will fail even the most basic testing.Why? Because combat is not an ideal,it's a reality.And reality rarely conforms to our hypotheticals of it; we have to fied test our techniques via sparring and self-defense scenarios at escalating levels of power and speed etc. in order to impart real world ability competence and confidence.


The IP,by definition,does not and cannot do this.Therefore the IP in any form or variant will always be the problem and the functional variant in whatever form will always always be superior.It's the superior teaching model,learning model,application model,spiritual model...it is literally the "proof in the pudding".

 

[marlon]

To answer your question about sparring, the answer is no. To clarify I would lile to point out that sparring is essentially a game
Would I fight with any of them. Would they look exactly like the IP, most likely not. Would they be reflective of the principles and basics taught through the IP absolutely. Maybe our instructors are very different in their approach of teaching through the set scenario and also, I am not AK. But I teach principles through these techniques in order to win the fight and not techniques in order to say I can pull off Freaky Monkey whenever someone jumps me from the left side with a club in his right hand when the moon is at 3/4 of it's phase

As a friend of mine says: training is truth. Perhaps it is proof as well
I am thoroughly enjoying this discussion
Respectfully
Marlon

 

[MJS]

To answer your question about sparring, the answer is no. To clarify I would lile to point out that sparring is essentially a game
Would I fight with any of them. Would they look exactly like the IP, most likely not. Would they be reflective of the principles and basics taught through the IP absolutely. Maybe our instructors are very different in their approach of teaching through the set scenario and also, I am not AK. But I teach principles through these techniques in order to win the fight and not techniques in order to say I can pull off Freaky Monkey whenever someone jumps me from the left side with a club in his right hand when the moon is at 3/4 of it's phase

As a friend of mine says: training is truth. Perhaps it is proof as well
I am thoroughly enjoying this discussion
Respectfully
Marlon

Just for clarification. The subject of sparring has come up before, both here and on KenpoTalk. Speaking for myself, when I hear sparring, I'm not thinking of doing the techs in the typical point or freestyle format. Sparring, IMO, in this sense, is randomly testing the techs, testing yourself, ie: pressure testing, aliveness, etc. Ex: pick a set tech to work, in this case, 5 Swords. Attacker punches, but instead of standing there like a statue, the attacker adds movement, so as to not allow you to execute the textbook tech, he punches with the other hand, he tries to grab, tackle, etc.

Doing this, is sparring, IMO. We have to be careful not to let it turn into the typical sparring match, but as I said, its more testing, than sparring. If you watch Ras' clips, you'll see what he's talking about.

 

[marlon]

What you describe fits more into what we call reaction drills. The difference for me is not only a lack of predictability on the type of attack and when it comes, but also a commitment to do damage. Sparring has a lot of feignts and feeling out that is frequently not there in a fight as well as the level of commitment. However, if we adhere to your definition of sparring I stand by my ealrier post
Thanks
Marlon

 

[ATACX GYM]

Just for clarification. The subject of sparring has come up before, both here and on KenpoTalk. Speaking for myself, when I hear sparring, I'm not thinking of doing the techs in the typical point or freestyle format. Sparring, IMO, in this sense, is randomly testing the techs, testing yourself, ie: pressure testing, aliveness, etc. Ex: pick a set tech to work, in this case, 5 Swords. Attacker punches, but instead of standing there like a statue, the attacker adds movement, so as to not allow you to execute the textbook tech, he punches with the other hand, he tries to grab, tackle, etc.

Doing this, is sparring, IMO. We have to be careful not to let it turn into the typical sparring match, but as I said, its more testing, than sparring. If you watch Ras' clips, you'll see what he's talking about.

I was about to say this myself,but you did a marvelous job here.I'm enjoying this discussion.

What you describe fits more into what we call reaction drills. The difference for me is not only a lack of predictability on the type of attack and when it comes, but also a commitment to do damage. Sparring has a lot of feignts and feeling out that is frequently not there in a fight as well as the level of commitment. However, if we adhere to your definition of sparring I stand by my ealrier post
Thanks
Marlon

To me? Sparring has a MUCH broader range than the point fighting precision striking (which is very functional,depending on how you train it) and what have you.If you are saying that you actually train with movement escalating levels of attack which reach up to 100% full power full speed techniques (which very functionally emulates street assaults),you do so from 360 degrees of protection,seated,vs armed,multifight,armed multifight,ground,clinch,escape,rescue,and variants of these and other factors? Then you're training functionally...and by doing so not only do we find our common ground you solidify my point.If the IP was sufficient? Reaction drills,high intensity sparring,multiple assailants...in short,the need to train in a way that conforms with the fact that SD scenarios are by definition NOT the "ideal"...would be totally unneeded.Real world sparring and field testing is THE ULTIMATE litmus test short of the actual SD situation itself.Again,the simplicity and truth of it is made evident by its results. Your friend is RIGHT. "Training is truth". I would be inclined to opine that training can definitely gives us insight into truth as well.And if you aren't reacting to an attack exactly as the IP specifies but boxers,Navy SEALS,SWAT team members,martial artists like me,and everyone else who uses the Functional Method uses our techniques nearly 100% of the time EXACTLY like or in the 90+ percentile similar to how we train and handily handle our opposition? Then our training is more efficient.And we have more quality reps in it. If we're relatively equal physically and mentally yet you train the IP way yet respond in a no-IP way to numerous attacks,and I train functionally and respond successfully and functionally to those very same attacks with the exact techniques that I'd been training? Then I'm both better AND more efficient than you.Because your training paradigm is demonstrably inferior to mine.

 

[marlon]

I was about to say this myself,but you did a marvelous job here.I'm enjoying this discussion.




To me? Sparring has a MUCH broader range than the point fighting precision striking (which is very functional,depending on how you train it) and what have you.If you are saying that you actually train with movement escalating levels of attack which reach up to 100% full power full speed techniques (which very functionally emulates street assaults),you do so from 360 degrees of protection,seated,vs armed,multifight,armed multifight,ground,clinch,escape,rescue,and variants of these and other factors? Then you're training functionally...and by doing so not only do we find our common ground you solidify my point.If the IP was sufficient? Reaction drills,high intensity sparring,multiple assailants...in short,the need to train in a way that conforms with the fact that SD scenarios are by definition NOT the "ideal"...would be totally unneeded.Real world sparring and field testing is THE ULTIMATE litmus test short of the actual SD situation itself.Again,the simplicity and truth of it is made evident by its results. Your friend is RIGHT. "Training is truth". I would be inclined to opine that training can definitely gives us insight into truth as well.And if you aren't reacting to an attack exactly as the IP specifies but boxers,Navy SEALS,SWAT team members,martial artists like me,and everyone else who uses the Functional Method uses our techniques nearly 100% of the time EXACTLY like or in the 90+ percentile similar to how we train and handily handle our opposition? Then our training is more efficient.And we have more quality reps in it. If we're relatively equal physically and mentally yet you train the IP way yet respond in a no-IP way to numerous attacks,and I train functionally and respond successfully and functionally to those very same attacks with the exact techniques that I'd been training? Then I'm both better AND more efficient than you.Because your training paradigm is demonstrably inferior to mine.

Interesting, and perhaps you are correct, i do not know. I know i can defend myself quite well and I am confident that my students can as well. As for boxing and SEAL training, I don't think they have set techniques so unless you are advocating dropping any set techniques (IP or ohterwise), i do not see the comparisson. Each time I teach someone how to step back with an IP technique, how to step forwar with a downward block, how to position themselves inside or outside of an attack... there is functional training in the basics of alignment, structure and mechanics and more.The IP's are training vehicules fr the basics first and foremeost. not the other way around. Not single use techniques to be touted as perfection. Yet, intelligence suggests that in designing such tools make them damn effective, no? I do not consider fluid response options a failure in training either. The reason I find that a whole technique is not needed is because the technique is designed to work before completion, imo. That I find myself so positioned in a fight that the last 1/3 of an IP technique does the trick well...works for me. There is control and power built into the techniques that when porperly trainined and executed your kempo is great. If your concept of an IP technique includes un realistic training then our definitions are very different. When we ramp it up, we do not change the technique, we use the lessons of the technique to train it to work against ever increasing intensity. Perhaps, I made i sound otherwise. In a fight things come out as they will. In training we articicially force the technique so as to increase our skill level.
just a few toughts

Respectfully,
Maron

 

[marlon]

I was about to say this myself,but you did a marvelous job here.I'm enjoying this discussion.




To me? Sparring has a MUCH broader range than the point fighting precision striking (which is very functional,depending on how you train it) and what have you.If you are saying that you actually train with movement escalating levels of attack which reach up to 100% full power full speed techniques (which very functionally emulates street assaults),you do so from 360 degrees of protection,seated,vs armed,multifight,armed multifight,ground,clinch,escape,rescue,and variants of these and other factors? Then you're training functionally...and by doing so not only do we find our common ground you solidify my point.If the IP was sufficient? Reaction drills,high intensity sparring,multiple assailants...in short,the need to train in a way that conforms with the fact that SD scenarios are by definition NOT the "ideal"...would be totally unneeded.Real world sparring and field testing is THE ULTIMATE litmus test short of the actual SD situation itself.Again,the simplicity and truth of it is made evident by its results. Your friend is RIGHT. "Training is truth". I would be inclined to opine that training can definitely gives us insight into truth as well.And if you aren't reacting to an attack exactly as the IP specifies but boxers,Navy SEALS,SWAT team members,martial artists like me,and everyone else who uses the Functional Method uses our techniques nearly 100% of the time EXACTLY like or in the 90+ percentile similar to how we train and handily handle our opposition? Then our training is more efficient.And we have more quality reps in it. If we're relatively equal physically and mentally yet you train the IP way yet respond in a no-IP way to numerous attacks,and I train functionally and respond successfully and functionally to those very same attacks with the exact techniques that I'd been training? Then I'm both better AND more efficient than you.Because your training paradigm is demonstrably inferior to mine.

BTW do you really have a technique seated against multiple armed attackers that you train?

 

[ATACX GYM]

BTW do you really have a technique seated against multiple armed attackers that you train?

Yes.The technique is don't get killed and run your *** off.

 

[ATACX GYM]

Interesting, and perhaps you are correct, i do not know. I know i can defend myself quite well and I am confident that my students can as well. As for boxing and SEAL training, I don't think they have set techniques so unless you are advocating dropping any set techniques (IP or ohterwise), i do not see the comparisson. Each time I teach someone how to step back with an IP technique, how to step forwar with a downward block, how to position themselves inside or outside of an attack... there is functional training in the basics of alignment, structure and mechanics and more.The IP's are training vehicules fr the basics first and foremeost. not the other way around. Not single use techniques to be touted as perfection. Yet, intelligence suggests that in designing such tools make them damn effective, no? I do not consider fluid response options a failure in training either. The reason I find that a whole technique is not needed is because the technique is designed to work before completion, imo. That I find myself so positioned in a fight that the last 1/3 of an IP technique does the trick well...works for me. There is control and power built into the techniques that when porperly trainined and executed your kempo is great. If your concept of an IP technique includes un realistic training then our definitions are very different. When we ramp it up, we do not change the technique, we use the lessons of the technique to train it to work against ever increasing intensity. Perhaps, I made i sound otherwise. In a fight things come out as they will. In training we articicially force the technique so as to increase our skill level.
just a few toughts

Respectfully,
Maron

I like posting with you,Marlon...

...I have no doubt that you and your students can defend yourselves well.And again...if your training includes energy,timing,motion,resistance and it ramps up to maximum levels of resistance? We're talking 100% full power here? Then we're talking functional training.

Where I think you and I may also be missing one another is the idea of basics and solid basic technical training.The functional method is unquestionably superior here too.

Functionality is exactly what is needed to teach the proper stances,transitions,blocks,whatever you need.If you learn a technique--whatever it is--in practice and execute it correctly in the pursuit and accomplishment of whatever it's goal is? It's functional.Functionality isn't limited to what-if's.Functionality is high quality,practical,applicable,immediate real world PERFORMANCE.It's WHAT IS,not just WHAT IF.And it's applicable in every real world human pursuit.Functionality is NOT a SPECIFIC SET OF TECHNIQUES;functionality is the overarching and underlying principle that gives rise to an infinity of highly applicble,immediately and recognizably effective,extremely efficient real world techniques that will work pretty much anywhere anytime vs anyone or any group. So even if you would do a different response to the CAPTURED TWIGS than me? If you trained your response with proper functional tested basics,against energy motion timing resistance up to near full power or full power? Then it's functional.The difference in our specific response is the difference in our human experience,but the unifying overarching reality is our functionality and there will be distinct and apparent similarities to our responses.

The unifying similarity in the IP techniques as I have seen them is that they don't work reliably because they haven't been tested reliably vs real world opposition.Zero or barely more than zero energy,motion,timing was used in the IP suggested teaching method.Which is why it won't work in the real world vs real attackers.And the disillusioned beatdown student who's been hoodwinked by IP training will then conclude that KARATE doesn't work and either stop pursuing martial arts altogether or go to MMA because MMA guys can by and large do what they say they can do and they can do it against anybody and they can teach you to do it that way too.Know why? Functionality.Same with Navy SEALS,SWAT guys,etc.If you train your Kenpo that way? You'll win most of your SD encounters if not all of them.And if you come up on the losing side? It won't be because your Kenpo isn't functional.You'll know what happened and you'll know what to do about it.When Sugar Ray Leonard lost to Duran in their first meeting,he didn't conclude that BOXING DOESN'T WORK.He retooled his training.When Holyfield lost to Bowe,when Ali lost to Spinks,when Sugar Shane lost to Floyd...none of them concluded that BOXING DOESN'T WORK.They retooled their training.In nonfunctionally trained martial arts schools? The beatdown students will speedily conclude that THEIR WHOLE ART doesn't work.Even casual fans of boxing won't conclude that boxing doesn't work,or police tactics don't work,or military tactics won't work because a boxer loses or a police or military person dies.They know better.And that's the difference between functional training and IP training.IP training is functionally unreliable in the real world and functional training is reliable in every regard and every way in the real world,from the most basic concepts and philosophies,to the most non-impact technical training,to life and death threats.And there ya are.

 

[marlon]

I like posting with you,Marlon...

...I have no doubt that you and your students can defend yourselves well.And again...if your training includes energy,timing,motion,resistance and it ramps up to maximum levels of resistance? We're talking 100% full power here? Then we're talking functional training.

Where I think you and I may also be missing one another is the idea of basics and solid basic technical training.The functional method is unquestionably superior here too.

Functionality is exactly what is needed to teach the proper stances,transitions,blocks,whatever you need.If you learn a technique--whatever it is--in practice and execute it correctly in the pursuit and accomplishment of whatever it's goal is? It's functional.Functionality isn't limited to what-if's.Functionality is high quality,practical,applicable,immediate real world PERFORMANCE.It's WHAT IS,not just WHAT IF.And it's applicable in every real world human pursuit.Functionality is NOT a SPECIFIC SET OF TECHNIQUES;functionality is the overarching and underlying principle that gives rise to an infinity of highly applicble,immediately and recognizably effective,extremely efficient real world techniques that will work pretty much anywhere anytime vs anyone or any group. So even if you would do a different response to the CAPTURED TWIGS than me? If you trained your response with proper functional tested basics,against energy motion timing resistance up to near full power or full power? Then it's functional.The difference in our specific response is the difference in our human experience,but the unifying overarching reality is our functionality and there will be distinct and apparent similarities to our responses.

The unifying similarity in the IP techniques as I have seen them is that they don't work reliably because they haven't been tested reliably vs real world opposition.Zero or barely more than zero energy,motion,timing was used in the IP suggested teaching method.Which is why it won't work in the real world vs real attackers.And the disillusioned beatdown student who's been hoodwinked by IP training will then conclude that KARATE doesn't work and either stop pursuing martial arts altogether or go to MMA because MMA guys can by and large do what they say they can do and they can do it against anybody and they can teach you to do it that way too.Know why? Functionality.Same with Navy SEALS,SWAT guys,etc.If you train your Kenpo that way? You'll win most of your SD encounters if not all of them.And if you come up on the losing side? It won't be because your Kenpo isn't functional.You'll know what happened and you'll know what to do about it.When Sugar Ray Leonard lost to Duran in their first meeting,he didn't conclude that BOXING DOESN'T WORK.He retooled his training.When Holyfield lost to Bowe,when Ali lost to Spinks,when Sugar Shane lost to Floyd...none of them concluded that BOXING DOESN'T WORK.They retooled their training.In nonfunctionally trained martial arts schools? The beatdown students will speedily conclude that THEIR WHOLE ART doesn't work.Even casual fans of boxing won't conclude that boxing doesn't work,or police tactics don't work,or military tactics won't work because a boxer loses or a police or military person dies.They know better.And that's the difference between functional training and IP training.IP training is functionally unreliable in the real world and functional training is reliable in every regard and every way in the real world,from the most basic concepts and philosophies,to the most non-impact technical training,to life and death threats.And there ya are.

I am enjoying this exchange as well. Firstly, sorry to disappoint you, we never get up to striking each other with 100% power. We amp it up and attack with increasing speed and intent but 100% power no. It gets rough enough and the wake up call that something is off in your skills and technique is very very apparent, but most people can go to work the next day. The full contact stuff is for the black belts who wnt to and even then we ae not out to damage any one, like the traditional kaju stuff. the rest of the stuff you mentioned is training as we do it

I think I really don't understand what you are calling the ideal phase. could you describe it for me please. Also, your functional training, is that all about speed and power? I imagine it is not started on day one. How do you bring people to the level that they can successfully, engage in the functional level?

Thanks
Marlon

 

[ATACX GYM]

I am enjoying this exchange as well. Firstly, sorry to disappoint you, we never get up to striking each other with 100% power. We amp it up and attack with increasing speed and intent but 100% power no. It gets rough enough and the wake up call that something is off in your skills and technique is very very apparent, but most people can go to work the next day. The full contact stuff is for the black belts who wnt to and even then we ae not out to damage any one, like the traditional kaju stuff. the rest of the stuff you mentioned is training as we do it

I think I really don't understand what you are calling the ideal phase. could you describe it for me please. Also, your functional training, is that all about speed and power? I imagine it is not started on day one. How do you bring people to the level that they can successfully, engage in the functional level?

Thanks
Marlon

Functionality is direct and simple.Since I have to go and teach some more,let me give you a link to Functional/Alive training...


http://www.straightblastgym.com/newbook.htm

 

[Inkspill]

this link doesn't talk at all about what functional/alive training is, only why others "don't train it" etc.

for the question on the Ideal Phase, it is the first of 3 phases (IDEAL phase I, WHAT IF phase II, FORMULATION phase III).

"this is PHASE 1 of the analytical process of dissecting a technique. It requires structuring an IDEAL technique by selecting a combat situation that you wish to analyze. contained within the technique should be fixed moves of defense, offense, and the anticipated reactions that can stem from them. this PHASE strongly urges the need to analyze techniques from 3 POINTS OF VIEW. refer to 3 POINTS OF VIEW, as well as FIRST, SECOND, and THIRD POINT OF VIEW." encyclopedia of Kenpo

look into phases, stages, and states to explore more.

 

[MJS]

this link doesn't talk at all about what functional/alive training is, only why others "don't train it" etc.

for the question on the Ideal Phase, it is the first of 3 phases (IDEAL phase I, WHAT IF phase II, FORMULATION phase III).

"this is PHASE 1 of the analytical process of dissecting a technique. It requires structuring an IDEAL technique by selecting a combat situation that you wish to analyze. contained within the technique should be fixed moves of defense, offense, and the anticipated reactions that can stem from them. this PHASE strongly urges the need to analyze techniques from 3 POINTS OF VIEW. refer to 3 POINTS OF VIEW, as well as FIRST, SECOND, and THIRD POINT OF VIEW." encyclopedia of Kenpo

look into phases, stages, and states to explore more.

I posted this in the other thread, but for reference...

http://www.straightblastgym.com/aliveness101.html

here ya go.

 

[marlon]

this link doesn't talk at all about what functional/alive training is, only why others "don't train it" etc.

for the question on the Ideal Phase, it is the first of 3 phases (IDEAL phase I, WHAT IF phase II, FORMULATION phase III).

"this is PHASE 1 of the analytical process of dissecting a technique. It requires structuring an IDEAL technique by selecting a combat situation that you wish to analyze. contained within the technique should be fixed moves of defense, offense, and the anticipated reactions that can stem from them. this PHASE strongly urges the need to analyze techniques from 3 POINTS OF VIEW. refer to 3 POINTS OF VIEW, as well as FIRST, SECOND, and THIRD POINT OF VIEW." encyclopedia of Kenpo

look into phases, stages, and states to explore more.

Thanks,
Could you explain the other phases?

 

[Inkspill]

What If Phase - this is PHASE 2 of the analytical process of dissecting a technique. This PHASE takes in additional variables. It requires being programmed to further analyze the IDEAL or fixed technique. Expected, as well as unexpected opponent reactions are projected and evaluated. The concept here is that every movement may have critical consequences; thus, in a realistic situation, the need to predict each consequence to the best of your knowledge is imperative. Ideally, all consequential possibilities should b projected, evaluated, and learned. To do so is to increase your ability to instinctively and randomly alter the basic technique, and thus allow yourself a choice of action.

Formulation Phase - this is PHASE 3 of the analytical process of dissecting a technique. This PHASE involves the actual application of your newly found alternatives to the original IDEAL or fixed technique. Knowing what can additionally happen within the framework of the fixed technique, teaches you how to apply your variable answers to a free and changing environment. This ultimate process of combat training can be learned by using the EQUATION FORMULA for fighting.

 

[marlon]

Thank you. and, of course, equation ????

marlon

 

[ATACX GYM]

this link doesn't talk at all about what functional/alive training is, only why others "don't train it" etc.

for the question on the Ideal Phase, it is the first of 3 phases (IDEAL phase I, WHAT IF phase II, FORMULATION phase III).

"this is PHASE 1 of the analytical process of dissecting a technique. It requires structuring an IDEAL technique by selecting a combat situation that you wish to analyze. contained within the technique should be fixed moves of defense, offense, and the anticipated reactions that can stem from them. this PHASE strongly urges the need to analyze techniques from 3 POINTS OF VIEW. refer to 3 POINTS OF VIEW, as well as FIRST, SECOND, and THIRD POINT OF VIEW." encyclopedia of Kenpo

look into phases, stages, and states to explore more.

Thank you. and, of course, equation ????

marlon

My bad on putting up the incorrect link.The correct link would have been THIS ONE

http://www.straightblastgym.com/aliveness101.html


And this "IDEAL PHASE" is a devastatingly horrific almost certainly dysfunctional deception that needs to be trash canned ASAP.The IDEAS BEHIND the "ideal phase" are GOOD SOLID IDEAS.We should specifically train against common street SD scenarios and attacks as these scenarios and attacks are likely to never occur in the most primary froms of sparring matches in the dojo.The surprise attack,multifights,armed attacks,verbal confrontation leading to the sucker punch,being pushed/slammed/thrown into walls,energetic attacks and hair grabs,head slams,etc.Wonderful ideas to start FUNCTIONAL TRAINING from.

However,the physical expression and most dominant examples of the IP are TOTALLY NONFUNCTIONAL and suck the big one.They are absolutely without merit and need to be trash canned forthwith.They have basically zero modern day worth or value.There IS NO IDEAL IN COMBAT.If you had an ideal in combat? That ideal would be to NOT be in combat.There is no functional,honest,healthy,real-world way to defend the IP sequences because none of them are functional.None of them.Zero.However,if we took those ideas and trained them functionally as I advocate? We'd have suddenly a plethora of extremely functional seqences and techniques that not only could and would capture the public's imagnation as a real world instantly applicabe I-don't-have-to-b-a-MMA-fightr-to-defend-myself-and-get-in-shape-plus-my-kids-can-learn-dscipline-and-have-fun HONEST AND TRUTHFUL MARKETING METHOD (it's rare to have "honest an trutful" combined with "marketing" in the same sentence AND BE ACCURATE);we also have the mandate to evolve and become more functional as time passes,thus never falling out of the realm of real world applicability.We'd have FUNCTIONAL TEMPLATES instead of IDEAL templates.We'd also be in DIRECT ACCORDANCE with what GGMEP himself stated is what his instructor had done with the lessons that he learned (Professor Chow) and subsequently taught GGMEP to do,and which GGMEP wants all kenpoists to do...which is to focus on practical application and tailor our knowledge for the modern realities of the streets today.

Therefore those who are championing the maintainence of the IP in its current form are NOT hewing to the underlying principles of practicality and functionality that spawned the creation of the IP in the first place.They are hewing to THE FORM and NOT THE SUBSTANCE. The IP was amongst the height of innovative thought and training concepts in its early times,but especially since the 80's it was outmoded.The advent of events like the UFC and the success within the USA and worldwide of MMA caused serious practitioners to NOT abandon their core arts but rather retool their training to deal with the options and opportunities that were are and will be spawned by the MMA revolution.The IP is loooong overdue for total overhaul and retooling,and the return to the actual vibrant idea of practicality and functionality being the root from which all technique tactics training methods and stratagems spring.Kenpo's unique movement methods will be articulated in ways that are far more effective than they currently are,and fitness will be pushed to a level wherein we won't see such a proliferation of fat belts hanging over the waists of our serious and senior black belts (this is,of course,excepting medical conditions that impact a person's ability to train,sleep,or whatever it may be).

The IP is trash.It is craptacular.It needs permanent and serious flushing.It's a hindrance to Kenpo.Going back to the comparisons between DTS and 5 Swords that started this thread? The whole IP and the anal retentive "training" that it spawns is the reason that there's even a QUESTION about the DTS.It's the reason that there will forever be doubts about much of Kenpo's utility as long as it exists in this fashion;because the IP has zerio utilitarian aspects.Zero.None.Doesn't matter how illustrious a name sings its praises.You ever see a sizable chunk of boxers seriously ask:"Uhhhhh...does that jab thing work in a real fight?" Hell no. How many times have you seen even a high school wrestler of moderate experience and training truly doubt the utility of the shot,clinch,double leg,or trip? Never. You know hy? They train realistically and functionally.They fight the way they train.And theyspar and fight with the techniques that they train with.Even their Parliament style funk moves are all born of real world combat reality and are very functional

Observe:

THE FUNK ROLL INSTRUCTIONAL

THE FUNK ROLL APPLICATION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjKp3f8pqpI&feature=related


THE BACKFLIP APPLICATION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NhwQzjWSmk&feature=related

Now why can't we find ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of anyone using our beloved Kenpo SD techniques WHILE SPARRING,IN A MATCH,OR IN A REAL FIGHT? I mean specifically the Ideal Phase Kenpo techniques.Waiting.Still waiting.Time's up.The answer is because the SD techniques aren't trained functionally enough on a universal scale to engender the confidence in their use EVEN IN A TOURNAMENT WITH ONLY KENPO PRACTITIONERS.That's just...sad beyond words.Can you go to a boxing tourney and RELIABLY NEVER SEE A JAB? Can you go to a TKD tourney and RELIABLY NEVER SEE A SIDEKICK ROUND OR BACK KICK? Can you go to ANY sport combat competition ANYWHERE ON EARTH and RELIABLY NOT SEE THE VERY BACKBONE OF THE ART NOT BEING DONE? Nope.But YOU CAN SEE IT IN KENPO.The 72 SD TECHS ARE RELIABLY NOT DONE.

That's...beyond tragic.


But I guarantee you that I will change that.Before April is over you will see me put on my Channel live sparring clips wherein I use my FUNCTIONAL variants of Kenpo's SD techniques against all comers and watch them work.For all of you who will inevitably diss and deconstruct my technical application even though I succeeded? My responses are preemptively: "Where or YOUR videos?" and "I guarantee that I'll do these techniques to you too.Successfully."



Back to the IP defenders and supporters...

Until they SPAR AND FIGHT TOP FLIGHT RESISTING OPPONENTS USING THE IP EXACTLY AS THEY SHOWED IT TO US AND WIN? They're trash. However,the FUNCTIONAL articulation of the IDEAS BEHIND THE IP are GIANT GIFTS BOONS AND BENEFITS TO THE MARTIAL ARTS.Functionality makes all benefits possible.Functionality is why a Master who's never spent one second in the IKCA which birthed the DTS (me) was able to instantly spin a far more effective method from it WITHIN MINUTES OF READING IT AND NOT EVER SEEING IT DONE BY AN IKCA MAN.The IP can get your tail kicked or killed while making you think that you have the tools to defend yourself,some innocents and/or loved ones because it's absolutely not functional yet instructors who are enspelled by it will similarly mesmerize their unsuspecting students and it's their STUDENTS who are most likely to face the horrific reality of their complete lack of preparedness in some rude awakening on the street.Their students will then conclude that KARATE DOESN'T WORK...AND SPREAD THE GOSPEL TO THEIR FRIENDS.Hell nowadays? Kids could find themselves being stomped out on Youtube,displaying their LACK of functionality with Kenpo for all to see.Kids and adults will have what they think is empirical evidence that karate doesn't work,so go to a boxing or MMA gym.

Now I apologize to those whose feelings or sensibilities have been affected by my bluntness here,as I don't mean to attack any single person or group specifically.What I'm railing against is the preservation of a tremendously harmful absolutely wasteful nonfunctional training METHOD which is the IDEAL PHASE instead of the common sense,wonderful training CONCEPT that spawned the IP in the first place.The CONCEPT IS FUNCTIONAL.The METHOD is *** and must be atomically annihilated forthwith and replaced with the Functional/Alive/Insert A Name That Curls Your Toes approach fifthwith.Lolol.See...forthwith/fourthwith and fifthwith? Jokes I say.

 

[marlon]

My bad on putting up the incorrect link.The correct link would have been THIS ONE

http://www.straightblastgym.com/aliveness101.html


And this "IDEAL PHASE" is a devastatingly horrific almost certainly dysfunctional deception that needs to be trash canned ASAP.The IDEAS BEHIND the "ideal phase" are GOOD SOLID IDEAS.We should specifically train against common street SD scenarios and attacks as these scenarios and attacks are likely to never occur in the most primary froms of sparring matches in the dojo.The surprise attack,multifights,armed attacks,verbal confrontation leading to the sucker punch,being pushed/slammed/thrown into walls,energetic attacks and hair grabs,head slams,etc.Wonderful ideas to start FUNCTIONAL TRAINING from.

However,the physical expression and most dominant examples of the IP are TOTALLY NONFUNCTIONAL and suck the big one.They are absolutely without merit and need to be trash canned forthwith.They have basically zero modern day worth or value.There IS NO IDEAL IN COMBAT.If you had an ideal in combat? That ideal would be to NOT be in combat.There is no functional,honest,healthy,real-world way to defend the IP sequences because none of them are functional.None of them.Zero.However,if we took those ideas and trained them functionally as I advocate? We'd have suddenly a plethora of extremely functional seqences and techniques that not only could and would capture the public's imagnation as a real world instantly applicabe I-don't-have-to-b-a-MMA-fightr-to-defend-myself-and-get-in-shape-plus-my-kids-can-learn-dscipline-and-have-fun HONEST AND TRUTHFUL MARKETING METHOD (it's rare to have "honest an trutful" combined with "marketing" in the same sentence AND BE ACCURATE);we also have the mandate to evolve and become more functional as time passes,thus never falling out of the realm of real world applicability.We'd have FUNCTIONAL TEMPLATES instead of IDEAL templates.We'd also be in DIRECT ACCORDANCE with what GGMEP himself stated is what his instructor had done with the lessons that he learned (Professor Chow) and subsequently taught GGMEP to do,and which GGMEP wants all kenpoists to do...which is to focus on practical application and tailor our knowledge for the modern realities of the streets today.

Therefore those who are championing the maintainence of the IP in its current form are NOT hewing to the underlying principles of practicality and functionality that spawned the creation of the IP in the first place.They are hewing to THE FORM and NOT THE SUBSTANCE. The IP was amongst the height of innovative thought and training concepts in its early times,but especially since the 80's it was outmoded.The advent of events like the UFC and the success within the USA and worldwide of MMA caused serious practitioners to NOT abandon their core arts but rather retool their training to deal with the options and opportunities that were are and will be spawned by the MMA revolution.The IP is loooong overdue for total overhaul and retooling,and the return to the actual vibrant idea of practicality and functionality being the root from which all technique tactics training methods and stratagems spring.Kenpo's unique movement methods will be articulated in ways that are far more effective than they currently are,and fitness will be pushed to a level wherein we won't see such a proliferation of fat belts hanging over the waists of our serious and senior black belts (this is,of course,excepting medical conditions that impact a person's ability to train,sleep,or whatever it may be).

The IP is trash.It is craptacular.It needs permanent and serious flushing.It's a hindrance to Kenpo.Going back to the comparisons between DTS and 5 Swords that started this thread? The whole IP and the anal retentive "training" that it spawns is the reason that there's even a QUESTION about the DTS.It's the reason that there will forever be doubts about much of Kenpo's utility as long as it exists in this fashion;because the IP has zerio utilitarian aspects.Zero.None.Doesn't matter how illustrious a name sings its praises.You ever see a sizable chunk of boxers seriously ask:"Uhhhhh...does that jab thing work in a real fight?" Hell no. How many times have you seen even a high school wrestler of moderate experience and training truly doubt the utility of the shot,clinch,double leg,or trip? Never. You know hy? They train realistically and functionally.They fight the way they train.And theyspar and fight with the techniques that they train with.Even their Parliament style funk moves are all born of real world combat reality and are very functional

Observe:

THE FUNK ROLL INSTRUCTIONAL

THE FUNK ROLL APPLICATION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjKp3f8pqpI&feature=related


THE BACKFLIP APPLICATION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NhwQzjWSmk&feature=related

Now why can't we find ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of anyone using our beloved Kenpo SD techniques WHILE SPARRING,IN A MATCH,OR IN A REAL FIGHT? I mean specifically the Ideal Phase Kenpo techniques.Waiting.Still waiting.Time's up.The answer is because the SD techniques aren't trained functionally enough on a universal scale to engender the confidence in their use EVEN IN A TOURNAMENT WITH ONLY KENPO PRACTITIONERS.That's just...sad beyond words.Can you go to a boxing tourney and RELIABLY NEVER SEE A JAB? Can you go to a TKD tourney and RELIABLY NEVER SEE A SIDEKICK ROUND OR BACK KICK? Can you go to ANY sport combat competition ANYWHERE ON EARTH and RELIABLY NOT SEE THE VERY BACKBONE OF THE ART NOT BEING DONE? Nope.But YOU CAN SEE IT IN KENPO.The 72 SD TECHS ARE RELIABLY NOT DONE.

That's...beyond tragic.


But I guarantee you that I will change that.Before April is over you will see me put on my Channel live sparring clips wherein I use my FUNCTIONAL variants of Kenpo's SD techniques against all comers and watch them work.For all of you who will inevitably diss and deconstruct my technical application even though I succeeded? My responses are preemptively: "Where or YOUR videos?" and "I guarantee that I'll do these techniques to you too.Successfully."



Back to the IP defenders and supporters...

Until they SPAR AND FIGHT TOP FLIGHT RESISTING OPPONENTS USING THE IP EXACTLY AS THEY SHOWED IT TO US AND WIN? They're trash. However,the FUNCTIONAL articulation of the IDEAS BEHIND THE IP are GIANT GIFTS BOONS AND BENEFITS TO THE MARTIAL ARTS.Functionality makes all benefits possible.Functionality is why a Master who's never spent one second in the IKCA which birthed the DTS (me) was able to instantly spin a far more effective method from it WITHIN MINUTES OF READING IT AND NOT EVER SEEING IT DONE BY AN IKCA MAN.The IP can get your tail kicked or killed while making you think that you have the tools to defend yourself,some innocents and/or loved ones because it's absolutely not functional yet instructors who are enspelled by it will similarly mesmerize their unsuspecting students and it's their STUDENTS who are most likely to face the horrific reality of their complete lack of preparedness in some rude awakening on the street.Their students will then conclude that KARATE DOESN'T WORK...AND SPREAD THE GOSPEL TO THEIR FRIENDS.Hell nowadays? Kids could find themselves being stomped out on Youtube,displaying their LACK of functionality with Kenpo for all to see.Kids and adults will have what they think is empirical evidence that karate doesn't work,so go to a boxing or MMA gym.

Now I apologize to those whose feelings or sensibilities have been affected by my bluntness here,as I don't mean to attack any single person or group specifically.What I'm railing against is the preservation of a tremendously harmful absolutely wasteful nonfunctional training METHOD which is the IDEAL PHASE instead of the common sense,wonderful training CONCEPT that spawned the IP in the first place.The CONCEPT IS FUNCTIONAL.The METHOD is *** and must be atomically annihilated forthwith and replaced with the Functional/Alive/Insert A Name That Curls Your Toes approach fifthwith.Lolol.See...forthwith/fourthwith and fifthwith? Jokes I say.

I really think you should stop tip toeing around the issue and tell us how you really feel

 

[Inkspill]

I disagree with you ATACX. You may have not seen it but doesn't mean it doesn't exist, you may not have done it, doesn't mean it isn't done by others. You may not be able to work it, doesn't mean, etc. Kenpo is not about getting in shape, that's a benefit, of which there are many, but the point of the Kenpo is stopping the bad guy and getting away. What is your exposure to Kenpo? where did you learn? Who taught you? How long studying Kenpo? Which specific Kenpo? I have a feeling your experience has been as negative as mine was with another art. For the longest time I said "X art sucks" but it was the teacher, not the art as I came to understand once I met other black belts in that art from outside that school. Of course its still up to the student to train as well. If you don't do the basics correctly of course it won't work.

 

[MJS]

My bad on putting up the incorrect link.The correct link would have been THIS ONE

http://www.straightblastgym.com/aliveness101.html


And this "IDEAL PHASE" is a devastatingly horrific almost certainly dysfunctional deception that needs to be trash canned ASAP.The IDEAS BEHIND the "ideal phase" are GOOD SOLID IDEAS.We should specifically train against common street SD scenarios and attacks as these scenarios and attacks are likely to never occur in the most primary froms of sparring matches in the dojo.The surprise attack,multifights,armed attacks,verbal confrontation leading to the sucker punch,being pushed/slammed/thrown into walls,energetic attacks and hair grabs,head slams,etc.Wonderful ideas to start FUNCTIONAL TRAINING from.

However,the physical expression and most dominant examples of the IP are TOTALLY NONFUNCTIONAL and suck the big one.They are absolutely without merit and need to be trash canned forthwith.They have basically zero modern day worth or value.There IS NO IDEAL IN COMBAT.If you had an ideal in combat? That ideal would be to NOT be in combat.There is no functional,honest,healthy,real-world way to defend the IP sequences because none of them are functional.None of them.Zero.However,if we took those ideas and trained them functionally as I advocate? We'd have suddenly a plethora of extremely functional seqences and techniques that not only could and would capture the public's imagnation as a real world instantly applicabe I-don't-have-to-b-a-MMA-fightr-to-defend-myself-and-get-in-shape-plus-my-kids-can-learn-dscipline-and-have-fun HONEST AND TRUTHFUL MARKETING METHOD (it's rare to have "honest an trutful" combined with "marketing" in the same sentence AND BE ACCURATE);we also have the mandate to evolve and become more functional as time passes,thus never falling out of the realm of real world applicability.We'd have FUNCTIONAL TEMPLATES instead of IDEAL templates.We'd also be in DIRECT ACCORDANCE with what GGMEP himself stated is what his instructor had done with the lessons that he learned (Professor Chow) and subsequently taught GGMEP to do,and which GGMEP wants all kenpoists to do...which is to focus on practical application and tailor our knowledge for the modern realities of the streets today.

Therefore those who are championing the maintainence of the IP in its current form are NOT hewing to the underlying principles of practicality and functionality that spawned the creation of the IP in the first place.They are hewing to THE FORM and NOT THE SUBSTANCE. The IP was amongst the height of innovative thought and training concepts in its early times,but especially since the 80's it was outmoded.The advent of events like the UFC and the success within the USA and worldwide of MMA caused serious practitioners to NOT abandon their core arts but rather retool their training to deal with the options and opportunities that were are and will be spawned by the MMA revolution.The IP is loooong overdue for total overhaul and retooling,and the return to the actual vibrant idea of practicality and functionality being the root from which all technique tactics training methods and stratagems spring.Kenpo's unique movement methods will be articulated in ways that are far more effective than they currently are,and fitness will be pushed to a level wherein we won't see such a proliferation of fat belts hanging over the waists of our serious and senior black belts (this is,of course,excepting medical conditions that impact a person's ability to train,sleep,or whatever it may be).

The IP is trash.It is craptacular.It needs permanent and serious flushing.It's a hindrance to Kenpo.Going back to the comparisons between DTS and 5 Swords that started this thread? The whole IP and the anal retentive "training" that it spawns is the reason that there's even a QUESTION about the DTS.It's the reason that there will forever be doubts about much of Kenpo's utility as long as it exists in this fashion;because the IP has zerio utilitarian aspects.Zero.None.Doesn't matter how illustrious a name sings its praises.You ever see a sizable chunk of boxers seriously ask:"Uhhhhh...does that jab thing work in a real fight?" Hell no. How many times have you seen even a high school wrestler of moderate experience and training truly doubt the utility of the shot,clinch,double leg,or trip? Never. You know hy? They train realistically and functionally.They fight the way they train.And theyspar and fight with the techniques that they train with.Even their Parliament style funk moves are all born of real world combat reality and are very functional

Observe:

THE FUNK ROLL INSTRUCTIONAL

THE FUNK ROLL APPLICATION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjKp3f8pqpI&feature=related


THE BACKFLIP APPLICATION

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NhwQzjWSmk&feature=related

Now why can't we find ONE SINGLE INSTANCE of anyone using our beloved Kenpo SD techniques WHILE SPARRING,IN A MATCH,OR IN A REAL FIGHT? I mean specifically the Ideal Phase Kenpo techniques.Waiting.Still waiting.Time's up.The answer is because the SD techniques aren't trained functionally enough on a universal scale to engender the confidence in their use EVEN IN A TOURNAMENT WITH ONLY KENPO PRACTITIONERS.That's just...sad beyond words.Can you go to a boxing tourney and RELIABLY NEVER SEE A JAB? Can you go to a TKD tourney and RELIABLY NEVER SEE A SIDEKICK ROUND OR BACK KICK? Can you go to ANY sport combat competition ANYWHERE ON EARTH and RELIABLY NOT SEE THE VERY BACKBONE OF THE ART NOT BEING DONE? Nope.But YOU CAN SEE IT IN KENPO.The 72 SD TECHS ARE RELIABLY NOT DONE.

That's...beyond tragic.


But I guarantee you that I will change that.Before April is over you will see me put on my Channel live sparring clips wherein I use my FUNCTIONAL variants of Kenpo's SD techniques against all comers and watch them work.For all of you who will inevitably diss and deconstruct my technical application even though I succeeded? My responses are preemptively: "Where or YOUR videos?" and "I guarantee that I'll do these techniques to you too.Successfully."



Back to the IP defenders and supporters...

Until they SPAR AND FIGHT TOP FLIGHT RESISTING OPPONENTS USING THE IP EXACTLY AS THEY SHOWED IT TO US AND WIN? They're trash. However,the FUNCTIONAL articulation of the IDEAS BEHIND THE IP are GIANT GIFTS BOONS AND BENEFITS TO THE MARTIAL ARTS.Functionality makes all benefits possible.Functionality is why a Master who's never spent one second in the IKCA which birthed the DTS (me) was able to instantly spin a far more effective method from it WITHIN MINUTES OF READING IT AND NOT EVER SEEING IT DONE BY AN IKCA MAN.The IP can get your tail kicked or killed while making you think that you have the tools to defend yourself,some innocents and/or loved ones because it's absolutely not functional yet instructors who are enspelled by it will similarly mesmerize their unsuspecting students and it's their STUDENTS who are most likely to face the horrific reality of their complete lack of preparedness in some rude awakening on the street.Their students will then conclude that KARATE DOESN'T WORK...AND SPREAD THE GOSPEL TO THEIR FRIENDS.Hell nowadays? Kids could find themselves being stomped out on Youtube,displaying their LACK of functionality with Kenpo for all to see.Kids and adults will have what they think is empirical evidence that karate doesn't work,so go to a boxing or MMA gym.

Now I apologize to those whose feelings or sensibilities have been affected by my bluntness here,as I don't mean to attack any single person or group specifically.What I'm railing against is the preservation of a tremendously harmful absolutely wasteful nonfunctional training METHOD which is the IDEAL PHASE instead of the common sense,wonderful training CONCEPT that spawned the IP in the first place.The CONCEPT IS FUNCTIONAL.The METHOD is *** and must be atomically annihilated forthwith and replaced with the Functional/Alive/Insert A Name That Curls Your Toes approach fifthwith.Lolol.See...forthwith/fourthwith and fifthwith? Jokes I say.

Well, can't add much more to this post, other than to say that I wanna steal the bold parts and make a sig. line out of it.