Teaching Challengers

[Gerry Seymour]

What if I show up and ask to spar because I think itll be interesting?

Again, attitude and approach would affect my response. My inclination is that I'd agree, for the same reason. Have to temper that with some caution.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Again, attitude and approach would affect my response.

Whether the challenger's attitude is good or bad, the end result will still be the same.

- If he beats you, he will go out and spread the words.
- If you beat him, he will keep his mouth shut and never wants to mention that challenge fight for the rest of his life.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I’m not answering for Gerry nor anyone else but myself here...

If I don’t know you and you want to spar because you think it’ll be interesting, my response would be to find something more interesting to do.

If I knew you and trusted your motives, I’d say let’s have a friendly sparring session in the hopes of both of us learning something new.

Again, attitude and approach would affect my response. My inclination is that I'd agree, for the same reason. Have to temper that with some caution.

Okay, change in question. What if i ask you to spar (jr) or grapple (gp), and winner has to buy the other beer later?
I would make it the winner because i dont have any confidence i would win, and want free beer

Truth be told i would actually ask grappling for either...i dont like sparring with the goal of winning

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Whether the challenger's attitude is good or bad, the end result will still be the same.

- If he beats you, he will go out and spread the words.
- If you beat him, he will keep his mouth shut and never wants to mention that challenge fight for the rest of his life.

Not necessarily. If I challenged someone and got destroyed with respect, I'd tell that story all the time. If I won, I'd only tell the story if it was worth the telling.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Okay, change in question. What if i ask you to spar (jr) or grapple (gp), and winner has to buy the other beer later?
I would make it the winner because i dont have any confidence i would win, and want free beer

Truth be told i would actually ask grappling for either...i dont like sparring with the goal of winning

That's a challenge I'd be almost certain to accept. Beer is motivational, even if I have to buy.

 

[JR 137]

Okay, change in question. What if i ask you to spar (jr) or grapple (gp), and winner has to buy the other beer later?
I would make it the winner because i dont have any confidence i would win, and want free beer

Truth be told i would actually ask grappling for either...i dont like sparring with the goal of winning

Winning is coming out of the sparring having learned something new. If I destroy you without you having an answer for anything I did or you destroy me the same way, it’s pretty much a waste of time. If I come away learning something I can actually use, it doesn’t matter how bad the rest of the day went; I won.

It’s like sparring little kids - you don’t get anything out of it. I might have some laughs, but that’s the extent of it on my part. That’s a one-way learning street.

That applies to striking, grappling, or a mix of the two. And I’d be up for a grappling session. Wrestling didn’t really teach me submission or chokes. I could wing those if I had to, but there’s nothing like doing that with someone who formally knows it.

 

[FriedRice]

Whether the challenger's attitude is good or bad, the end result will still be the same.

- If he beats you, he will go out and spread the words.
- If you beat him, he will keep his mouth shut and never wants to mention that challenge fight for the rest of his life.

Last time this happened to me, it wasn't the case though.

Kind of a strange guy came into the gym off of a Groupon. Saw him in the BJJ class, then he came to mine for of 'dat Mai Thai. He was swinging hard on pads, but bad techniques = untrained. Then he wanted to spar. There were only noobs and girls there so I sparred him. I said, "LIGHT"......of course he swings for the fences. He was bigger, had a longer reach, in great shape and in his early 20's.

He clearly had street creds/experience. He was twitchy and had a clear game plan for street fighting (which he told me later so I was right). He had a Philly Shell type deal where he waits, then leans back and unload a crazy haymaker. The thing is that a well executed haymaker or sporadic haymakers here & there, does work on trained fighters....because we rarely deal with them in sparring other trained MTs/Boxers. I blocked 50% of it and the other 50% made through and I felt it. I just kept my cool and played with him, just tapping him light (no mouthguard) while letting him swing all he wants at full power, which he was. He should have been dazzled by my ninja/chopsocky skills but he wasn't as I saw him in Jitsu the next few days.

Then I don't see him for a month. Find out he was sick. Didn't seem like he wanted to join my class, just do Jitsu...but wanted to spar since he was there (waiting for BJJ to start). This time, I just wrecked him with leg kicks but still only taps to the face....because he caught me again with that stupid haymaker setup and I felt it for a few days. This kid was really fast, but he wasn't walking to fast after that.

Please tell me what I'm doing wrong as an instructor. Let me have it, double barrels. I think my class is too rough on new people.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

It’s like sparring little kids - you don’t get anything out of it.

This is why a fist fight challenge is very difficult. If a winning is defined by knock down, you may have to use more force than you need.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Winning is coming out of the sparring having learned something new. If I destroy you without you having an answer for anything I did or you destroy me the same way, it’s pretty much a waste of time. If I come away learning something I can actually use, it doesn’t matter how bad the rest of the day went; I won.

It’s like sparring little kids - you don’t get anything out of it. I might have some laughs, but that’s the extent of it on my part. That’s a one-way learning street.

That applies to striking, grappling, or a mix of the two. And I’d be up for a grappling session. Wrestling didn’t really teach me submission or chokes. I could wing those if I had to, but there’s nothing like doing that with someone who formally knows it.

With grappling, I'm a bit more inclined to 'try' to win, since that makes me motivated to do things that work. But that may just be that i'm a better striker than a grappler.

 

[Balrog]

Old people don't issue challenges for the most part. I figure, who am I to deny a youngster the experience of getting his **** handed to him, East Coast style, by an old haole.

Challenge away, but as always, be careful what you wish for. This ain't Gin Rummy.

I agree with this. I haven't had a challenger in many years. The last one that came in challenged me for ownership of my school. I told him, "Dude, bring me a cashier's check for $150k and I'll put the keys in your hand. If you're not willing to do that, step over here, let me explain our programs and let's get you started in your training."

He just looked at me funny, then walked out.

 

[Martial D]

With grappling, I'm a bit more inclined to 'try' to win, since that makes me motivated to do things that work. But that may just be that i'm a better striker than a grappler.

With Jitz you can go 100% with minimal risk of injury, so it's easier and safer to just 'go for it'

With striking you need to be a tad more careful, unless you have a good supply of backup training partners(or conversely, the other fella does)

 

[Martial D]

Whether the challenger's attitude is good or bad, the end result will still be the same.

- If he beats you, he will go out and spread the words.
- If you beat him, he will keep his mouth shut and never wants to mention that challenge fight for the rest of his life.

Not always. If I know someone can hand me my *** at something, striking, grappling, movement, etc..I won't hesitate to recommend them to the next guy..even if they can and do(regularly) outdo me at that thing. Actually, especially then.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I've only witnessed one person come into my Dojo and challenge one of the instructors. Long story short, the instructor easily handled him(after he signed the release) and knocked the wind out of him. He signed up for classes afterwards and trained for a few months.

My question is after beating them, would you agree to teach someone who walked in off the streets and challenged you? Do you see such behavior as a reflection of their character or a red flag? Why or why not?

For me, I have never been challenged, except over the Internet. People who have walked into the school and seen students train felt pretty good that we were fight oriented. I also used to have videos of me sparring on the school website for the main purpose of erasing any doubt about the training of the students and the instructors.

If I was ever put into a situation like that within a school environment. I would first explain the severity what it really means to challenge someone. Then I would give him a safer option in the format of sparring. Sparring can be friendly. Challenges not so much. In sparring I can hold back, a challenge match, I feel the need to show the full extent of Kung Fu so that there is no doubt. In addition to that. I assume that the person challenging me only means me harm.

I would most likely teach someone I've sparred with and not teach someone who has challenged me.

 

[JowGaWolf]

This is why a fist fight challenge is very difficult. If a winning is defined by knock down, you may have to use more force than you need.

This is why I prefer talking someone into a friendly sparring match. It would give me the opportunity to dial things back as needed.

 

[JowGaWolf]

I agree with this. I haven't had a challenger in many years. The last one that came in challenged me for ownership of my school. I told him, "Dude, bring me a cashier's check for $150k and I'll put the keys in your hand. If you're not willing to do that, step over here, let me explain our programs and let's get you started in your training."

He just looked at me funny, then walked out.

who in their right mind would fight for an ownership of a school? too many kung fu movies lol

 

[Balrog]

who in their right mind would fight for an ownership of a school? too many kung fu movies lol

Exactly!

 

[geezer]

Heck, I don't think I would have ever welcomed an outright challenge fight, and now that I'm moving into my mid 60s, it would be out of the question.

About ten years back I was visiting my son's wrestling class and on a crazy whim challenged a high school wrestler who was quite a bit bigger than I ... and I hadn't wrestled since sophomore year in high school myself nearly forty years earlier. And I did pretty well. But these were nice kids, and you can grapple all out without hurting anyone. ...OK, I was sore as hell for about a week after, but not hurt.

Striking arts are a whole different deal, especially with a stranger with unknown motivations. You might think you are going in for controlled sparring, and the other guy wants to take your head off. Like this idiot:

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Heck, I don't think I would have ever welcomed an outright challenge fight, and now that I'm moving into my mid 60s, it would be out of the question.

About ten years back I was visiting my son's wrestling class and on a crazy whim challenged a high school wrestler who was quite a bit bigger than I ... and I hadn't wrestled since sophomore year in high school myself nearly forty years earlier. And I did pretty well. But these were nice kids, and you can grapple all out without hurting anyone. ...

Last year (right after my 70 years old birthday) I saw a group of young wrestlers wrestled on the grass. I asked them if I could also have fun with them. I had so much fun to wrestle a young guy who was 45 years younger than me and 50 lb more weight than me.

IMO, I won't consider that as a challenge fight. The wrestling art world is much different from the striking art world.

 

[JR 137]

With all this talk about grappling being safer than striking in a challenge match, I pose this question...

What if the challenger doesn’t respect your tapout?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

With all this talk about grappling being safer than striking in a challenge match, I pose this question...

What if the challenger doesn’t respect your tapout?

We all know that one more friend is not too many but one more enemy can be too many. If you don't want to end with a gun fight, you will need to follow some rule.